IT HAS BEGUN "BIG" NEWS ON AP NEWS WIRE (page 32)

DannyHaszard

WILL YOU DIE FOR A LIE? Excellent excerpt-"So, technically, the Watchtower permits 100% of the blood in fractionated form. Here is an analogy: It's like saying, "see that truck over there, it's stolen and you can't buy it. But if someone dismantles it, it's not a truck anymore, it's truck parts and you can buy what you want. However, the engine, the transmission, the radio and the disc brakes are special. They are the 'primary' components of the truck (i.e. the red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma). You can't have these 'primary' components unless you first completely dismantle them. If you do that you can buy them too."*

rebel8

How in the world do the elders enforce fraction use compliance?

It's simple for hemophiliacs. If you're alive, you're not complying. If you're dead, it's probably because you've complied.

I've read a lot on the fractions rule and I'm convinced of these things:

The WTS continues to contradict itself on whether or not fractions are allowed and which ones. This is nothing new; it's been going on ever since fractions were invented. Flip, flop.
The rule about hemophilia factor remains very unclear, and probably purposefully so. Flip, flop.
Because of #1, I am not confident the allowable fractions are diverse enough to add up to whole blood. Depends who you ask or which literature you read.
The rank and file JWs do not comprehend what they claim to be their own personal beliefs (which treatments and fractions are ok with their conscience) and thus rely upon the HLCs to tell them what they believe.
The HLCs seem to be mini bastions of power, reigning over the lives of local JWs by whatever rules and interpretations of rules they personally decide is best.

(A young hemophilia activist died a few days ago. Nothing related to JWs, just sad.)

DannyHaszard

Note-many of the published articles that didn't show on the immediate news wires and posted in this thread are now coming up on the permanent web index ALL OVER for Jehovah's Witnesses keywords,do a weekly search yourself and enjoy -Danny

http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=6248

News: The Blood Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses is More Complex pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=6248 - 15k - Jan 30, 2006

gumby

Danny....would you mind answering the question I asked since nobody else has. It's about 3 or 4 posts back. Thanks

Gumby

garybuss

Gumby, you wrote: "Isn't that what the 5 page letter to the congregations was for? Or am I out in left field again? I thought it was to remind the dubs of what is ok and what isn't as regards blood."

Actually that letter doesn't mention WHAT IS ALLOWED. It refers to policy but does not explain that policy. Same with the DPA document.

All fractions have only been allowed since year 2000. See Questions From Readers, Watchtower, June 15 2000, page 29-31.

So called, major components are not allowed until they are divided, then all parts of divisions are fractions and are allowed.

See the chart posted above.

gumby

Actually that letter doesn't mention WHAT IS ALLOWED. It refers to policy but does not explain that policy. Same with the DPA document.

Thanks Gary.

I realise the letter doesn't mention WHAT is allowed....but in the 1998 letter...are MAJOR COMPONETS the same as fractions? The 98 letter said JW do not accept major components and my question was are fractions the same as major components? If they are.....then I can see the "change". If not....then how do you prove they never said you could not use "fractions" before the 2000 article came out?

Gumby

garybuss

My attachment to this blood use question is the clarification of what is a SALVATION ISSUE? Does using the "PERSONAL DECISION" blood treatment items mean loss of salvation? Or not?

A Witness reads that Witnesses do not use blood because if they use blood, Jehovah will murder them at Armageddon or Jehovah will not recreate then in a perfect replica body after Armageddon. That means they lose their hope, they lose the paradise. Then the Witnesses read that there are blood use treatments available that are "PERSONAL DECISION" items.

What do they think "PERSONAL DECISION" to take blood means for their salvation? I've read every article on blood printed and I have not read where the Society has said, "If you take the "PERSONAL DECISION" blood, you will be saved anyway.". That's what the Society needs to do to get these established Witnesses to accept treatment the leaders are allowing them to have.

The way it is now, is any blood treatment is a "PERSONAL DECISION". Some "PERSONAL DECISION" treatments we will shun you for and other "PERSONAL DECISION" treatments we won't shun you for and we haven't talked about salvation charges for any of these new policies. Why wouldn't the Witness people be confused?

garybuss

Gumby, They could use some fractions before year 2000. They could use hemophiliac blood clotting fractions and they could accept vaccinations. There is good research on the subject, like in Crisis Of Conscience. It helped me to be educated on the basics of this subject. There's a lot of good on line research and history all done and free and easy.

mrs rocky2

It is my understanding that the HLC will only go to bat for active, regular publishers. This was told to me about 10 years ago by my half-brother who was HLC member. He said HLC would not help "low hour" publishers. (I think he was trying to encourage Rocky and I to increase our field service hours with the fear tactic.) It is my belief that HLC has no concrete directive to help all baptized JWs and can arbitrarily decide who they will assist. So for someone like my sister, who is technically "inactive" because she doesn't go door to door regularly, but attends all assemblies/conventions and only some of the meetings, she wouldn't normally have access to HLC assistance. But she has good connections - Dad is a prominent elder and lives in the same area. Someone like me and Rocky (when we were still associated), we were stellar in attending all meetings, assemblies, conventions, active in the Ministry School, but under 5 hours/month field service, my half-brother insisted HLC would not help us, our connections aren't so good in E. Washington (Dad lives in Seattle, half-brother in Tacoma). Half-brother also indicated he would not intervene on my behalf unless my hours were better.

but...

We sure would get DFd or DAd for exercising our conscience in the "personal decision" area. I know this would be true. Right before we stopped attending meetings there was an newly baptized sister who had moved to a remote part of the congregation territory to care for her elderly, non JW parents. Consequently, she was not able to attend meetings and there were no shepherding calls to her by the elders. I had minimal phone contact with her as her parents hated the JWs (they knew I was JW) and had financial control of her affairs, often threatening to cut her off if she kept associating with JW (they were elderly in body but still pretty sharp in mind). She had a medical emergency and was taken to the local hospital ER where she asked the nursing staff to call me. She was hemorhaging. She had consented to blood transfusion at her non JW sister's counsel. Before I could get to the hospital, another JW who worked as an aide had already called the elders. One of the elders was ready to DF her. Rocky and I called the PO and pointed out the confidentiality issue and how this sister receiving the blood transfusion had not had any spiritual contact with the elders for more than a year. Also, this sister was raised by her family to believe she was mentally retarded. I don't believe her IQ qualified...she may have had learning disabilities and was a slow learner, socially challenged, but she functioned quite well independently. We told the PO that if they DFd her, we would walk away from the KH and never look back. They didn't DF her. Can't you feel the love and spiritual light?

sammielee24

If we find all of this confusing at times - I think most JW's will simply throw up their hands and say 'no' to everything. Make it simple. JW's can't make 'personal choices' because their reasoning to do so has been pushed so far down a hole, that for many it will buried forever. To them, personal choice may mean death so to be safe and less confused, they might just remain inside the safety net that was originally created by the Watchtower when they made the decision on this issue for all of their members. sammieswife.

IT HAS BEGUN "BIG" NEWS ON AP NEWS WIRE

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