IT HAS BEGUN "BIG" NEWS ON AP NEWS WIRE

by DannyHaszard 402 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • gumby
    gumby

    Gumby, They could use some fractions before year 2000. They could use hemophiliac blood clotting fractions and they could accept vaccinations.

    Isn't the argument existing in this whole thing about the witnesses NOT allowing fractions before 2000 and NOW they allow fractions.....but most dubs are unaware they now allow fractions?

    If not.....It would be nice if you or someone could post a thread on the exact situation going on regarding this. What exactly is the NEW change and HOW were dubs not informed.....that's what I need spelled out for me ....cuz I'm a dumbass. Thanks in adavance Gary...or anyone else who cares to explain it.

    Gumby

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde
    It is my understanding that the HLC will only go to bat for active, regular publishers. This was told to me about 10 years ago by my half-brother who was HLC member. He said HLC would not help "low hour" publishers.

    In our congregation a sister who had not been to a meeting for three years had surgery. She never got visits from the elders. However, on the day that she had her surgery an HLC member spent the entire day at the hospital and spent a great deal of time talking with doctors and others. I'm sure he counted his time.

    How that she's back home, I would be very surprised if she ever had a visit.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Gumby, I think you will find your answers at this link and the links on the page.
    http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/blood.htm
    More here:
    http://www.ajwrb.org/
    History here:
    http://www.ajwrb.org/history/index.shtml

    My reading of the AP article tells me it's about the issue of misrepresentation of secular facts. If Witnesses do not know blood fractions are a "personal decision", they have been living in a cave for the last 7 years or they have not read one thing about blood published by the Society. The Society has all but used a sledge hammer to get this across. :-)

    I don't think you're a dumbass at all. There's not been a change that I am aware of since year 2000. Sorry if I don't understand your question. Try asking it different. I'll stay with ya.


  • Bryan
    Bryan
    Here we go Brian. I found this on line. It was hiding right in plain sight.

    Thanks Gary!

    Bryan

  • gumby
    gumby

    Again, thanks Gary. I see where I was confused

    .......below is the change for those who haven't seen it side by side

    Watchtower Blood policy in 1961: “If you have reason to believe that a certain product contains blood or a blood fraction…if the label says that certain tablets contain hemoglobin…this is from blood...a Christian knows, without asking, that he should avoid such a preparation. - The Watchtower 11/01/1961, p. 669

    Is it wrong to sustain life by administering a transfusion of blood or plasma or red cells or others of the component parts of the blood? Yes!...the prohibition includes "any blood at all." - Blood, Medicine and the Law of God, 1961, pp. 13, 14 "...when it comes to fractions of any of the primary components, each Christian, after careful and prayerful meditation, must conscientiously decide for himself." The Watchtower 2000; June 15:29-31

    Gary...I'm not too sure however that the society used a sledgehammer to pound it down the dubs throats. Wasn't there only a couple of articles that dealt with the change?

    Gumby

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Gumby, I think you're right. Sledgehammer was a bit too strong. Would you go for rubber mallet?

    On fractions, we had the initial Watchtower QFR article in 2000.
    We had the blood brochure every Witness carries in their bag say:
    "Witnesses do not accept transfusions of whole blood, red cells, white cells, platelets, or blood plasma. As to minor fractions, such as immune globulin, see The Watchtower of [June 15, 2000, pages 29-31]."
    It's under "Quality Alternatives to Transfusion". On line at:
    http://www.watchtower.org/library/hb/index.htm

    Then they had the study article of:
    2004 - The June 15th Watchtower expands on the June 15, 2000 article. For the first time, the rank and file Jehovah's Witness learns that the single largest blood component (hemoglobin) is now permitted as a matter of personal choice. (Insiders and AJWRB members have known for four years. JW's have been using Polyheme and Hemopure where available in clinical trials as well).
    http://www.ajwrb.org/history/index.shtml

    So . . . they had two Watchtower articles, and a blood brochure reference. Both the 2000 and the 2004 Watchtower articles are reprinted and reissued every year on the Watchtower CD.

    It looks to me like the Society wants Witness people to know they can take blood by fractions any time, as well as whole blood, intra and post operative. What the Society isn't telling the Witness people is IF taking blood fractions or cell saver blood is charged against their salvation account.


  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    ........hey little pliable man..can you be anything other than a little dumbass????

    I mean look at yurself, will ya!

    Regards from a big Bearass.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Dannybear me man......nice of you to pop in. I was wonderin if you was still alive bein the fact yer such an old bastard and all. I see your sittin on yer arse and not postin or nuthin and lettin all us heathen bastards do all the hard work in eradicatin the dubs slowly but surely. I hope St. Peter gives you hell when you try gettin in with the rest of us.

    Gary,....thanks for covering the articles that dealt with the change. There were only a few references/articles as I expected.

    As the majority of dubs cannot explain how 1914 can be arrived by using the society's formula.......so can they not explain or understand their own beliefs regarding what is permisable regarding blood usage. Dubs are used to not understanding all the odd beliefs of their own religion ...such as why birthdays are so corrupt......but there is a danger when their lack of understanding a belief involves life or death such as the blood issue.

    This, is what makes this change different from other flip flops and changes within the organisation. The AP article regarding misrepresentation is hopefully the fuse that lights what has already been going on since 2000.....which is the REAL big news.

    What the Society isn't telling the Witness people is IF taking blood fractions or cell saver blood is charged against their salvation account.

    Well said. In true Watchtower fashion they will sacrafice lives to save egg on their face.

    Gumby

  • Gill
    Gill

    Morning All!

    The problem as I see it that the bOrg may have, should their policy over blood transfusions ever comes to court, ( as it looks like it may well do in the next few years) is how they are going to explain to the Judge their understanding on New Light and how Jehovah revealed to them that pre 2000 a good JW could not have blood or blood fractions and how after 2000, Jehovah revealed that 'certain fractions' would still allow eternal life to a JW taking them.

    I believe that if they had simply stuck to NO BLOOD - IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE! No one would be able to touch them when it comes to litigation.

    They have now printed and recorded so much crapola on the dangers of blood transfusions - literally frightening to death some JWs, and then actually going against all the 'physical' dangers of blood that they warn against, by allowing fractions, that not one iota of their blood policy makes any sense at all, and can be torn apart by anyone with a fully functioning cortex.

    I'm fascinated at the moment at their INTENSE scare mongering that has been taking place, for at least the last month, in the UK. Five talks on the issue of blood transfusions, compared to the usual one when the new blood card comes out, can only show they're running scared of something. It can't be that they have any change in the pipeline or they would not be repeating over and over the same information.

    A JW friend, of one of my older kids, complained that her elder father has had the whole family repeatedly watching the JW and Blood Video. As she complains BITTERLY' How many dangers can there really be involved in having a blood transfusion?!'

    So, as we sit here discussing this - another JW dies somewhere.....and probably a little later today....another one...just for the lack of a couple of pints of blood....that has been rigourously screened for diseases ..... and which God, just isn't interested in at all. All for the sake of avoiding the loss of those nicely squirreled away billions of billions of dollars donated by the very people who are willing to die over protecting the WTBTS from devastating law suits.

    I remember, probably last January, a Topic started on the proper interpretation of the Bibles supposed blood ban.

    Does any one have a link to it as I would like to read it again?

    It may have something to do with a particular JW who was a scholar and actually took the information to Brooklyn to try to talk sense into the 'brain dead, money clutching GB/FDS'. I believe he was not allowed to speak to anyone and was then disfellowshiped for his efforts.

    Thanks.

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    WE are rolling again!! Attorney Kerry Louderback-Wood poses in the law library of Henderson Franklin law firm in Fort Myers, Fla., on Jan. 23. Louderback-Wood has written a major academic critique of the Jehovah’s Witnesses blood policy .


    AP Photo/LUIS M. ALVAREZ History of sect's blood ban tangled
    South Bend Tribune, IN - 12 minutes ago
    NEW YORK -- Jehovah's Witnesses are renowned for teaching that Jesus is not God and that the world as we know it will soon end. ... February 02. 2006 6:59AM

    History of sect's blood ban tangled

    New directive to be adopted by Jehovah's Witnesses


    RICHARD N. OSTLING
    Associated Press Writer

    NEW YORK -- Jehovah's Witnesses are renowned for teaching that Jesus is not God and that the world as we know it will soon end. But another unusual belief causes even more entanglements -- namely, that God forbids blood transfusions even when patients' lives are at stake.

    The doctrine's importance will be underscored next week as elders who lead more than 98,000 congregations worldwide recite a new five-page blood directive from headquarters.

    The tightly disciplined sect believes the Bible forbids transfusions, though specifics have gradually been eased over the years. Raymond Franz, a defector from the all-powerful Governing Body that sets policies for the faith, thinks leaders hesitate to go further for fear that total elimination of the ban would expose the organization to millions of dollars in legal liability over past medical cases.

    The Witnesses have opposed transfusions of whole blood since 1945. A later pronouncement also barred transfusions of blood's "primary components," meaning red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma. An announcement in 2000 in the official Watchtower magazine, however, said that because of ambiguity in the Bible, individuals are free to decide about therapies using the biological compounds that make up those four blood components, such as gamma globulin and clotting factors that counteract hemophilia.

    Next week's directive could create confusion about these compounds, known as blood "fractions."

    Without noting the 2000 change, the new directive tells parents to consider this: "Can any doctor or hospital give complete assurance that blood or blood fractions will not be used in treatment of a minor?"

    Aside from the new directive, a footnote in the Witnesses' standard brochure, "How Can Blood Save Your Life?" mentions the 2000 article on fractions -- but then omits its contents . By coincidence, next week's directive follows some heavy criticism of the blood transfusion policy from attorney Kerry Louderback-Wood of Fort Myers, Fla., writing in the Journal of Church and State, published by Baylor University.

    Louderback-Wood, who was raised a Witness but now has no religious affiliation, accuses her former faith of giving "inaccurate and possibly dishonest arguments" to believers facing crucial medical decisions.

    Louderback-Wood complains that many Witnesses and physicians aren't given clear instruction about their faith's blood transfusion policy, particularly on the subject of fractions.

    She's no disinterested bystander. The lawyer says her mother died from severe anemia in 2004 because local elders didn't realize hemoglobin is permitted.

    Louderback-Wood learned that hemoglobin was allowed from the Web site of Associated Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform on Blood, which was founded in 1997 by dissenting local elders, eight of whom served on hospital liaison committees that advise Witnesses and physicians.

    The founder of Associated Jehovah's Witnesses, speaking on condition of anonymity to protect his standing in a faith that does not tolerate dissent, says liaison committee members know about the revised teachings, but most Witnesses automatically refuse all forms of blood without consulting the committees. Physicians are often ill-informed about Witness beliefs, he says.

    Louderback-Wood thinks the faith is subject to legal liability for misinforming adherents, which to her knowledge is an untested theory in U.S. courts. Related issues arise in a pending lawsuit in Calgary, Alberta, however, over the alleged "wrongful death" of teenage leukemia patient Bethany Hughes.

    Witnesses headquarters refused an Associated Press request to interview an expert on blood beliefs. Instead, General Counsel Philip Brumley issued a prepared statement rejecting Louderback-Wood's "analysis and conclusions" in general.

    "Any argument challenging the validity of this religious belief inappropriately trespasses into profoundly theological and doctrinal matters," Brumley stated.

    The Watchtower's 1945 ban said "all worshippers of Jehovah who seek eternal life in his new world" must obey. Such edicts are regarded as divine law, since the Governing Body uniquely directs true believers. Violators risk ostracism by family and friends.

    A subsequent Watchtower pronouncement forbade storage of a patient's own blood for later transfusion. In all, Associated Jehovah's Witnesses lists 20 shifts and refinements in blood-related rules over the years.

    At the core of their blood beliefs, Witnesses cite Acts 15:29, where Jesus' apostles agreed that Gentile converts should "keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood." The Witnesses also cite passages in Genesis and Leviticus.

    Judaism and Christianity have always understood these Scriptures to ban blood-eating for nourishment. This underlies Judaism's kosher procedures to extract blood from meat, which Witnesses do not follow. Christianity eventually decided the rule was temporary.

    Experts assume that Raymond Franz's late uncle, Frederick Franz, who served anonymously as the Witnesses' chief theologian, decided those passages cover blood transfusions. But Raymond Franz raises questions about the blood policy in his book "In Search of Christian Freedom." Among them:
  • Why forbid a patient's own stored blood yet permit components derived from large amounts of donated and stored blood?
  • Why allow organ transplants, which introduce far more foreign white blood cells than transfusions?
  • The Witnesses forbid plasma, which is mostly water, but allow the components in it that provide therapy. So what's the point of banning plasma?

    Advances in bloodless surgery have reduced medical dangers for Witnesses in the United States, but Associated Jehovah's Witnesses maintains the blood policy is a life-threatening problem elsewhere.

    Louderback-Wood says she'll be contented if her protest saves one child's life.

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