Share the wine, the matzos, and the wealth of April 12th! I'm up in Pa. for work, so I have a choice of 3 halls. Who shall be blessed with the arrival of Shaman Mojo? Crap shoots are hoots!
News About 2006 Memorial
by Severus 185 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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david_10
"I would look at those loser apostates out there pestering us and I thought: "See there-----------------Jehovah's organization is the only place to be. Where else can we go?"
When I made the above statement, it was not my intention to insult anyone and I apologize to any who have taken offense, especially SSSN and Rabbit. I certainly regard myself as an apostate, and I wouldn't want to give the impression that I'm a "loser" or that anyone else here is, either. However, if you'll go back and read the context of what I wrote, I said it from the viewpoint of a faithful witness on the inside looking out, and that is an entirely different matter. When I was a Witness, I definitely regarded apostates as losers. Didn't you? And the various shenanigans that a few would pull only bolstered that opinion.
One noteable incident that I remember extremely well: At one Memorial around 1985, a well dressed couple that no one recognized came into the Kingdom Hall, and, in the effort to welcome them, it soon become obvious that something was wrong. They were asked to leave, PDQ. They had smeared copious amounts of dog shit on their shoes and they tracked it into the Hall and stunk the whole place up. It was awful. If the goal was to ruin the Memorial, then they succeeded. "Losers", indeed. If the goal was to reach out to the misled faithful, they did not accomplish it. I can guarantee you---------------absolutely guarantee you------------that not one single person in attendance thought: "Hmmmm.................looky there-------------------the Society has lied to me all these years. I'm going to start investigating further." Didn't happen. And whether you're passing funny money or spreading dog shit, it will make no difference, although, if given the choice, I'm sure that most would prefer the money. Either way, though, those in attendance will regard you as a loser apostate. No offense intended.
What is the best thing to do? In my opinion, the best thing to do is leave the Witnesses alone. Everybody has to figure it out for themselves and they have to reach a certain point where they actually want help. That's the way it was with me, and that's the way it was with everyone else that I've ever known who has left. If you're honest, you will admit that that's the way it was with you, too. You have to recognize that something is wrong, and you have to figure it out. Unfortunately, most will never reach that point, and there's nothing you can do about it. Trying to force treatment on victims of Watchtower addiction is as useless as trying to force treatment on an alcoholic or a drug addict. If they don't want it, you can't help. I figure the least I can do is not to make it worse by trying to rain on their parade. Leave them alone. Life is very precious and I feel like I've given more than enough of mine to the Witnesses. I would like to mention that when I left the organization, I plunged into a major depression that at times was suicidal, but, damaged as I was, I survived. I won't waste another second on the WTS trying to get even. Life is beautiful----------------------enjoy it somewhere else on Wednesday night. That's what I think.
Once again, I sincerely apologize to any whom I have offended.
David
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Rabbit
David
...a well dressed couple that no one recognized came into the Kingdom Hall, and, in the effort to welcome them, it soon become obvious that something was wrong. They were asked to leave, PDQ. They had smeared copious amounts of dog shit on their shoes and they tracked it into the Hall and stunk the whole place up. It was awful. If the goal was to ruin the Memorial, then they succeeded. "Losers", indeed. If the goal was to reach out to the misled faithful, they did not accomplish it. I can guarantee you---------------absolutely guarantee you------------that not one single person in attendance thought: "Hmmmm.................looky there-------------------the Society has lied to me all these years. I'm going to start investigating further." Didn't happen. And whether you're passing funny money or spreading dog shit, it will make no difference, although, if given the choice, I'm sure that most would prefer the money.
I think you have made a massive leap to equate tracking "dog shit" into a Kingdom Hall and leaving these informative pieces of paper in the donation box.
The 'dog shit' is at the least -- vandalism and is very disrespectful and offensive -- anywhere.
Either way, though, those in attendance will regard you as a loser apostate. No offense intended.
Here's the thing -- I don't think it's possible for any of us to know...that all "those in attendance" will think one way or the other. When I was a pioneer I 'accepted' some apostate literature, as a 'trade' for them taking WT stuff. I was supposed to throw it away, but, curiosity made me read it. I did reject it and remained a JW for 30 years, but, I never forgot that there were people out there that had been JW's...and rejected it. It was a seed of doubt -- for me.
What is the best thing to do? In my opinion, the best thing to do is leave the Witnesses alone. Everybody has to figure it out for themselves and they have to reach a certain point where they actually want help.
My children are JW's. How can I "leave them alone" ? I buried my Mom over the blood issue, I do not want to do the same for my children & grandchildren.
You are right about "to figure it out for themselves..." at the same time, planting seeds of doubt, in the right way may help certain people actually begin to think independently. I have to try.
Once again, I sincerely apologize to any whom I have offended. David
No problem. I appreciate & accept your apology and explanation. Also, as a dub, I also attempted suicide, so, I understand that you have suffered quite a bit, too. I am glad that you have been able to move on and "leave them alone".
I just don't have that option with the situation my kids are in right now. One of them is struggling with 2 suicide attempts while under the influence of my x wife -- a super dub. She is made to feel she 'cannot be good enough for Jah', she was DF once and came back. They are holding that "DF axe" over her head again, partly for wanting association with me and a smoking addiction. She thinks she, "deserves to be punished for being bad." I literally fear for her life everyday, I do not think she'll live thru another disfellowshipping. I think you can see why I have to try -- whatever seems good to me to help her. Btw, me giving her or my other kids these checks or any literature -- is out of the question. It would be harmful if *I* did it, if they saw those checks somewhere else...? I dunno.
Thanks again, Rabbit
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AuldSoul
I think there is a greater benefit in this campaign than can be measured in the number that wake up as a result. The speed with which this campaign has come together and the volume of participation that seems possible will increase paranoia at the highest levels, it has probably already begun.
I am reminded of a song. "Paranoia strikes deep, into your [spiritual paradise] it will creep. It starts when your always afraid, step outa line, the man come...and take you away." The corporation will have two choices, lighten up or clamp down. A lack of reaction will be subliminally perceived as weakness and tolerance and will be as good as lightening up for the effect it will produce. Clamping down could not possibly be better for producing a field ready for harvesting.
What this WILL do, if acted on, is force people to have cognitive recognition that there is a limit on what they are allowed to know. True, most will use dissonance tricks to get rid of that effect. But especially rebellious ones and disenfranchised ones might wonder. And if they begin to wonder, then they will click.
And everyone is only a mouse-click away from the truth about The Truth™.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
DannyHaszard
Watchtower Money for protest and awareness
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valkyrie
REMINISCING:
Do you remember how thrilled and impressed you were when reading the personal accounts (in the Yearbook and [old] bound volumes of the Watchtower and Awake) of JWs who defied local authorities to communicate the Society’s writings to persecuted members of the faith? Some smuggled newsletters or single pages of the Watchtower to the inmates of prisons or concentration camps by baking them into loaves of bread or by sewing them into the lining of their clothing.
Weren’t you awed by their resourcefulness and determination to ‘feed’ and encourage their much put-upon brethren? I was.
Now is your opportunity to imitate the spirit of those true believers and to let the truth trickle into the hands of current captives. Activate your resourcefulness! Might the effort be labour-intensive and the act risky? Certainly! However, the reward may be twofold: 1) you may bring refreshing waters to those that thirst, and healthful food to those that feed - but are not satisfied; 2) you will be able to write and share your own personal experience from our correspondent in _______ right here on JWD, and thus thrill and impress another audience of faithful readers.
So, go ahead and be creative: Do you know that the KH in your area uses toilet paper rolls in the loo? Equip yourself with 1 or 2 rolls from your household stock (of recycled paper, please!), carefully unroll a few square at a time and tape your click-print-clip (CPC) currency/cheques thereto throughout the roll (judiciously spaced, of course… you will want to get these little gems into the hands of as many different loo-goers as possible). Then – just as carefully – re-roll your loo-rolls and smuggle them into the KH in a large handbag or otherwise-empty briefcase (a little squashing won’t hurt the product), pay a visit to one or two cubicles in the Ladies or Gents and deposit/install your contribution for easy access. With every jerk and tear of the roll, let your light shine forth like the brightness of the full moon above, and let it illuminate [the writing on the wall (e.g., “JWD was here”) for] those sitting in dark places!
Can you think of other ways to place your creativity and intelligence in the service of the truth on the 12 th ? -V.
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jwfacts
Great idea but I am not sure that there is enough info on the dollar bills. I was thinking that it may be worth writing a few questions on the back. For instance;
Why not ask your bible study conductor;
Why does the Watchtower teach that Jesus is not our mediator? it-2 p.362 w79 4/1 p. 31
Why can a Jehovahs witness use blood fractions but not donate blood?
Why did the Watchtower say everyone was going to heaven in 1881 and the end would come in 1914 and then 1925?
Why did Jehovahs Witnesses preach about pyramids until the 1930s?
When did Jehovah's Witnesses stop worshipping Jesus?
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david_10
"And everyone is only a mouse-click away from the truth about The Truth™."
Auldsoul, that statement is something that everyone can agree with, no matter what opinion one has. I agree 100%, although I would apply in in a slightly different way: When one of the faithful is finally at the end of their rope and when they are finally ready to get help and look for the way out, it's never been easier. Not "easy", for sure, but "easier." One little mouse click, and the journey has begun. And this terrifies the Society more than anything, and they're at a loss as to how to handle it. I'm certain of one thing, though: their threatening, strong-arm tactics won't keep a lid on the Internet. They can't stop it, and it will eventually be their undoing. All because of one little mouse-click.Rabbit, my heart goes out to you, but sometimes there are no answers or solutions, and we cope the best we can. I have seen this type of situation many times, though, and based on the limited information that you've given, I would point this out. I would speculate that your situation is out of your control and there's nothing that you can do. It's as simple as that. That realization alone might help you to see your way. I'm reminded of that old prayer, the so-called Serenity Prayer, that says: "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference." This is one thing that you can't change, and you'll have to accept it. The Witness mindset is too strong and too entrenched for you to break it down, and it's probably best if you give your kids some room and don't pressure them. You won't change them, and if you push it too hard, you'll alienate them. They'll have to figure it out on their own. That's the downside to this. The upside is, unless your profile needs to be updated, you aren't disfellowshipped. And that's a biggie. As long as you're not disfellowshipped, then you are accessible to them. If and when any of your kids reach that "tipping point," when they're ready to raise questions (horrors!!), and find answers, they'll know they can come to you. But you'll have to be patient and hope for the best. Please forgive me if I'm stepping out of line here, I may be totally off-base, but I've seen this type of thing many times, and it appears your situation is pretty typical.
I don't know what to say about your ex-wife, but it's awfully sad. The Society is a master at breaking down self-esteem and laying on the guilt-----------------------------they are so proficient at it that a person can become incapable of sorting out his own emotions-----------------------------------he (or she) will feel the way the Society tells him to feel. When that unending barrage of propaganda from the publications, the elders, the meetings & assemblies finally convinces one that he (or she) has been rejected by Jehovah, then suicide becomes a viable option. I've been there and, apparently, so have you. I hope you can help her----------------------------maybe getting her in for professional counseling would help, I don't know. I hope you can help her.
Lastly, I'm very sorry about your Mom. I lost my mother a couple of years ago, too, and it's something you'll never get over. My mother was also a victim of the organization, but in a different way. I wrote about her a few months ago:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/91932/1.ashx
You can read it when you get a chance.
Take care, Rabbit----------I wish you well.
David
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DannyHaszard
And everyone is only a mouse-click away from the truth about The Truth™."
We are in their face in cyberspace-Help today is a mouse-click away
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sixsixsixtynine
Once again, I sincerely apologize to any whom I have offended
David,
I wasn't offended (just disagreed), but thank you for the apology.
I can relate to your feelings about 'apostates' in the past. I remember seeing them at assemblies and thinking, "What a sad, lonely life they must have."
I think it's different now, though. I would guess almost every Witness has a relative, or former friend who is now 'apostate'.
They're no longer just the 'weirdos' outside the convention with a bullhorn.
And, while I'm not participating in this campaign, I think it (and others like it) can do some good. It will make the Society and hardline Witness even more paranoid than they already are. They'll clamp down harder, and try desperately to control the minds of the rank and file.
This kind of action by headquarters will eventually make more 'liberal' members, and especially younger people leave the Organization. When all the children have been run off, the religion will slowly die.
That's how I see it anyway.