Shunning and Friendship...two different things.

gumby

This thread is started as a result of our friend Lola's thread about meeting with elders and why.

It was mentioned by our poster that many would see folly in worrying about offending the ladies that helped her and that they were not true friends since they would shun her were she DFed.

Is this what many of you think?

Do you think if family or friends shun you after you are Dfed or DAed they are not "true friends"?

Well I totally disagree.

Does a mother or father who lets their child die due to refusing a blood transfusion.....not love their child? Does a mother who loves her daughter dearly and has been best friends with her daughter yet suddenly stops associating with her because she has left the Organisation and been DAed......not love her anymore. Does she not hurt inside? Does she not cry her eyes out every night grieving over her daughter she feels will not be in the New System with her?

Why do so many here not understand that when close family and friends shun us.......that they are doing this out of "LOYALTY" to god and their organisation whom they have been brainwashed into obeying in this area? Even soldiers will undergo torture and death in loyalty to their country......yet we are puzzled when a witness shows the same loyalty in their shunning beliefs. Why?

I know for a fact my family and close friends grieve for me. They hurt we cannot be close anymore. It tears my daughter up that her two kids can't have grandpa ( me) like it was at one time. My wife is hurt I'm not a witness. She and the friends miss me at gatherings and meetings and hope I will return so it will be like it was at one time. They care for me.

So, why do many here act like they are not true friends. Tell me.

Gumby

luna2

You're right, gumby. Sometimes I will fall into the trap of reducing all JWs to cariacatures and stereotypes...especially if I'm in the mood to rag on the Tower and everyone attached to it...but deep down I know that many dubs are good people stuck in a bad religion which forces them to make unnatural choices in the name of loyalty to their god. I have very fond feelings for quite a few of my old compatriots.

anewme

Gumby it is painful to acknowledge the feelings of our loved ones who are still in the org. It makes us feel very bad and helpless to know what to do about it. We cannot go back to the org for their happiness.
The only answer is for the WBTS to fall and the slaves be set free.

Thankyou for the truthful yet painful reminder that we are still loved and missed.

gumby

Thank you you two

I understand many will say things against the WTBTS that they do not really mean. I see poster being wishy washy about their feelings and contradicting themselves.......and I REALISE they do this out of anger. However.....this is not good for lurkers and hurting dubs peeking in here to see. These ones know BULLSHIT when they see it and it does them NO FAVORS when we speak untruths about the witnesses. It drives them away. It ALSO gives CURRENT posters reason to doubt that what many say here cannot be believed since they know deep in their heart when a untruth is expressed in a post about witnesses.

We're all just people, humans, and we make errors I realise. I too shoot off my mouth in an angry way about god and the bible as I feel like I was lied to a second time. I quote things before checking them out better but don't care mant times because I'm pissed and what I'm quoting suits my mood. That's not good.

Anyway, enough for now......continue on folks

Gumby

tall penguin

Interesting thoughts Gumby. I was actually reflecting on this last night as I read Lola's thread. I guess it all comes down to how you define love and what it means to you to be loved. I was told once, "When someone loves you, it should FEEL like they love you." Shunning doesn't feel like love. It feels like shunning. Our jw friends and family may love us, but it's conditional and misguided love, not the kind of love that I'm willing to accept in this life.
tall penguin

looking_glass

Gumby well said. I agree wholeheartedly about the "loyalty" issue. It is exactly like those who are willing to risk their lives in war for a country. These people do it for their God. They are not doing it to be mean, but as a form of "tough love".

It is a shame that Lola felt that she had to justify herself. I am sure her road was hard regardless and to have to explain and defend her actions to strangers or people she thought were friendly must have made her decision and resolve that much harder. I give her a lot of credit for her courage and strength to go thru with the whole thing and then to share it with us here.

fullofdoubtnow

Good post, Gumby, thankyou.

Everyone who leaves the wts knows what to expect from those still in, and why. I have taken part in the shunning myself, though I was never happy about it, it always seemed so unloving to me, and still does.

There are many who still attend my old kh that I would love to be able to contact, and I know that they would love to contact me, some of them ask my mother, who has never been a jw, how I am, but their loyalty to the wts prevents them approaching me personally. I wish it were different, but it's not. If it were, I know that some of those who I left behind would still be friends.

I am lucky enough not to have had anyone else from my family in the wts, so I obviously cannot speak from experience, but I have seen many distraught parents whose children have left the org, and I am well aware that the reasons for their distress was not that they no longer loved their children. It was because their relationship with them was now damaged, perhaps permanently, and they were no longer in line to survive armageddon and enter the new system. To them, they had committed suicide, in a spiritual sense anyway, and thrown their future away for present - day pleasures that won't last. I can't even imagine how that would make a loving parent feel.

wombat

Some people shun family ex-JW members because they know too much.

They can tell their children lies about why they discontinued their education prior to 1975.

They can deny that they ever thought that that the big A was coming in 1975.

So long as ex-JW family members survive from that period, they are a threat to their children. We know too much.

garybuss

That's quite a job, separating love from behavior. If love can be separated from behavior then hate can be separated from behavior too.

That means behavior doesn't matter . . . or love and hate don't matter.

gumby

When someone loves you, it should FEEL like they love you." Shunning doesn't feel like love. It feels like shunning. Our jw friends and family may love us, but it's conditional and misguided love, not the kind of love that I'm willing to accept in this life.

tall penguin

TP, what do you mean by "misguided love"? A marriage is also conditional. If you cheat on your mate and hurt them bad enough, they may leave you although this one will be hurt, still love you, and grieve to no end.......but you betrayed them. Is 'conditional' a bad thing?

The love witnesses have for family and friends isn't a different kind of love the world feels. Witnesses are humans made exactly the way non-witnesses are, same brain matter, nervous system, the whole nine yards. When they lose a child, lose a mate, a close friend dies....their hurt is EXACTLY the same as others. So, this "conditional" love they have we speak of many times, is a misnomer when applied like it is.

We sometimes forget how WE felt about "Loyalty" when we were witnesses.....if we were STRONG witnesses.....real knee deep witnesses. We obeyed.

When I saw a disfellowshipped person coming to the assembly or hall and this one looked like they were hurt but really trying to "get back in", I wanted to go hug them and welcome them, thank them for coming and trying so hard......but I couldn't.

I had to believe I was doing the right thing by shunning him and making him feel bad he left so he'd appreciate his badness for sinning against Jehovah. I had to believe our treatment of him would make him stronger and that this was the best medicine for him.......because the society said so and they are Jehovah's spokeman. I didn't understand it and it didn't feel right, but I had to obey and believe this was the BEST way.

Everyone who leaves the wts knows what to expect from those still in

Yes, you know you will be shunned and cut off.....but the one thing you don't realise is the pain and the feelings you will experience. You've never felt it before. I surprised myself of the anger I had when I first came out and was shunned. I KNEW I would be shunned.....yet I still got mad at people and wanted to holler out when they passed me without looking at me and say to them, ....."what the F%#*s yer problem asshole....you self rightous prick"! I know...me bad....but that's how you feel.

Gumby

Shunning and Friendship...two different things.

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