Shunning and Friendship...two different things. (page 5)

pratt1

I agree that the act of shunning does not mean that the shunner does not love the shunnee.

What is means is that the shunner loves something more (God, the Cult, their social standing in the Kingdum Hall, their friends) more than the shunnee.Unfortunately some of these are misguided.

We know that we love someone or that we are loved by the actions we give and recieve. If you totally cut someone off from your life then you have clearly made a choice that some issue or something else is more important than that relationship.

These are choices each individual makes, our choices show who and what we love the most.

Just my 2 cents.

Van Gogh

There is something to be said for both views.

For example I have recently seen the harshness of the way in which 10-year old cousins within my family are made to avoid each other as “bad association” – by their PO granddaddy (my uncle). THIS IS DISTURBING WRONGDOING THAT IS CASUALLY PERPATRATED. Are jdubs fully aware of the destruction they are causing?
Also, my pioneering cousin was disfellowshipped around 1970 for having premarital sex with the man she eventually married and had children with. She was automatically ostracized by our large JW family ever since. Although our large JW family was never loving and close, only recently do I fully realize the gravity of this INHUMANE INJUSTICE in the name of God.

But despite this, I find Gumby’s viewpoint a valid one.

Love has many manifestations – from absolute love to rational loyalty.
These each manifest themselves to varying degrees – from absolute pureness to complete conditionality.
In all of those different degrees it is tested in different ways.
This process takes place from at least two different perspectives.
It is possible for both to feel betrayed at the same time.
It is possible for both to feel guilty at the same time.
Love can be shown in a way that is not perceived as such: it is called detachment.

My exJW cousin’s 22 year old daughter was not raised by him as a JW. Yet, due to family connections she (this is no bitter exaggeration) was love-bombed and brainwashed into the JW system. She consequently quit the college her dad/my cousin had invested a lot of money in. She’s gone into a state of social security inertia, oversleeping most of the time before she goes into the afternoon field service that will earn her the paradise jackpot for free. Her dad/my cousin is demonized by her and her cong for his criticism of her. So he told her to pack her suitcase a go live with her spiritual benefactors. Now she is told not to divulge her address to her dad. My cousin dearly loves his daughter – she is a victim. Yet, he knows that, considering his daughters personality and predisposition in this particular case, the only way she’ll see the error of her ways is to learn the hard way. But I must admit that I’ve seen him hug her, and seen her letting him hug her, and at one time we all even had a good laugh at the absurdity of the situation when we dropped her off at her “secret address”.
So in instances of “unconditional love” (love in my opinion ultimately never is completely unconditional, except for that of a Christ perhaps?) love can be separated from the kind of behavior that is perceived to be loving, but is not, and be accompanied by the kind of behavior that can be perceived as hateful, but is in fact an act of unconditional love.
VG

Fleur

If you totally cut someone off from your life then you have clearly made a choice that some issue or something else is more important than that relationship.
These are choices each individual makes, our choices show who and what we love the most.

I have to agree with this.

I guess I spent too many years being told that abuse was love by the first man I was married to to believe anymore that hurting someone is loving them, no matter the motivation of the person claiming to love.

I know that several of my relatives do not disagree with the way that I am living my life on a daily basis; they have said that they don't see what is keeping me from coming back to the org because I'm not 'doing anything wrong'. Of course they have no idea that I am a 'flaming apostate' so to speak.

The apparent 'goodness' of my life troubles them more as time goes on, I really thought they expected I'd have crawled back in by now.

They shun me because they know if they don't, they'll be called into the back room. That is that. Saving my soul aside, it's their own ass they're worried about. They take the hard line because the borg dictates it.

I won't teach my child that that is the definition of love, not by a longshot.

Love is as love does. JW's might have their own definition of what it is, but as long as they're capable of doing things like shunning my innocent young child because I'm df'd...I will have a very hard time feeling any sympathy for their feelings of 'loss' over me. They don't miss me that much. If they did, they'd find a way to contact me. I tell them, don't grieve for me until I'm physically dead. If you choose to pretend that I am in the meantime...then it's your own narrowmindness that is in the way of my being in your life.

They love their god, no, their church more. End of story, IMO.

essie

Victorian sky

Gumby, this is a tough call. My husband is being shunned by his family. Part of me knows they are hurting too but another part wants to slap them for their cruelty. This is their only son, do you understand? This is his sister's only brother, okay? I know JWs are blind. I'm not innocent myself. I shunned my best friend for years when she was df'ed, I'm not proud of it, I was a self-righteous jerk for doing it. I look back and I don't understand how I could have hurt her that way. Sure I thought I was doing the right thing but no matter what I believed or what my 'loyal' motives were - it wasn't loving, bottom line. I thought about her all the time but I didn't act on my true feelings - that wasn't love, it was self preservation, I didn't want to die at Armageddon or lose my friends. So you'd think I understand, but I don't. I think about my husband and how he's suffereing because of this unloving, harsh organization and I feel so helpless. I begged his family not to shun him. I told them, even though we're Christians now, we won't discuss spiritual things with them, but please, please don't hurt him and they did. I pray to keep my love for them alive. I know they're brainwashed, I know they are good people, I'm sorry they're trapped in a cult but part of me wants to lash out in anger for all the pain they are putting him through. I pray for them everyday - that God will appeal to their humanity and speak to their hearts.

moanzy

Gumby,

I think that many JW's have NO idea what friendship and love is and means. I find it hard to identify love with a mother that tells her child "in Israelite times the parents would stone their disobedient children to death". Some things are just wrong to even say to children. Who tells their children that they are disgusting? Maybe my family is touched, but I just can't see love in any of this.

There are so many things about my growing up period that literally mark me as a throw away child. I do believe the Watchtower has stolen my families ability to love and at the very least show human compassion. It's very very sad!!!!!

Moanzy

carla

The ultimate 'throw away society' is the wt, only they throw away people like others throw away garbage.

garybuss

Gumby, you wrote: Are these two types of love equal....or does love have a broad spectrum that cannot be difined to a point all agree to?Love does not have a broad definition at all. Actually it's a really narrow definition. It's action. That's it. That's how it's possible to love my enemy. I can not like someone and do a kind (loving) act for them, and by definition, I loved them. It's very possible to not like somebody and do nothing but love them. Because love is not a feeling, love is an action (behavior).

Being loving is love. That's it.

garybuss

Gumby, next tackle the difference between truth and fact. That'll make an interesting thread:-)

Shunning and Friendship...two different things.

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