interesting document
Newbie question; Why do JW hypocrites PROVE that they're a cult?
by psycsnacha 101 Replies latest jw experiences
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Confession
Hi, Psyc... Thanks for your open-minded comments. Given such open-mindedness, I think you're going to figure this out for yourself at some point. It can take a bit... Here is a rather long piece I wrote a year or so. I hope you find it helpful.
Confession
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Talking to one of Jehovah's Witnesses? I'm sure he or she is very nice. Most are, in my opinion. I have a great deal of love for many, many Jehovah's Witnesses. In fact more than thirty members of my family are in the organization, since our family has a long history in it for four generations and more than sixty years.
Why do I love Jehovah's Witnesses? They look forward to a time when the earth will be a paradise and all humans will then live in perfection and happiness. This common hope can inspire love and a special kind of unity. They're not perfect, and you'll see this from time to time, but who is perfect, right?
As you continue your association with this Jehovah's Witness, there are a few things I'd like you to know.
1) The Watchtower Society, the official agency in charge of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, encourages young ones to be baptized quite young; thirteen or fourteen years of age.
2) While the baptism oaths used to require those getting baptized to acknowledge God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, in 1985 it was changed to require those getting baptized to acknowledge the Watchtower Society as "God's spirit-directed organization."
3) Being a baptized Jehovah's Witness requires you to recognize as God's sole channel of communication to humans - only those in association with the Watchtower Society. Although they may not mention it at first, they believe that unless you are baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses--and have a full share in their meetings and field service activity--you will die at the soon-to-come Armageddon, along with everyone else on earth who has not done these things.
4) If you become baptized and later decide you don't necessarily recognize those in association with the Watchtower Society as God's only channel of communication--and admit as much to others--you will almost surely be disfellowshiped and branded a wicked apostate, not even worthy of prayers. This means being shunned and vilified by all those--closest friends, family members, yes even your children--who are Jehovah's Witnesses. You will be identified as one of "The Evil Slave Class."
5) Trying to reason with the elders, your friends or family members that you are not deserving of such treatment is quite futile. Why? Because any Jehovah's Witness who does not submit to the enforced shunning is himself subject to being disfellowshiped and shunned if anyone finds out. This practice creates an environment in which people are fearful of anything the Watchtower Society has condemned, and in which people are reverse-incentivized to support anything they say.
6) If these things were to happen to you, during your judicial hearing you will be denied most of the rights generally afforded people in any sort of court. You are not given the right to have someone represent you, nor even the right to have witnesses of your choosing present. There will be no recording nor transcript of the proceedings. While they make sure there are three or more elders present to represent the Watchtower Society's interests, you are allowed no one to represent yours. You have no record of the hearing, no representation, no witnesses of your own; you have no concrete way to demonstrate that you were mistreated or that things weren't handled properly. Only your word (one person) against theirs (three persons.)
If, like me, you at some point become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, many wonderful things will be placed before you. Lots of literature containing beautiful artist's renderings of life on a paradise earth. Many experiences of how other people all over the world are becoming Jehovah's Witnesses. Frequent public talks that demonstrate how correct the Watchtower Society is in its increasing light regarding God's truth. You will be encouraged to read the Bible--along with publications from the Watchtower Society. And you'll find that "studying the Bible," while quite time-consuming, is not very difficult since it amounts to reading Watchtower publications and answering the accompanying, published questions from those corresponding paragraphs.
As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you will frequently be told not to listen to those who disagree with the teachings of the Watchtower Society. They will spend less time teaching you about why these opposers are wrong--and more time simply warning you not to pay attention. Note the following excerpt taken from the Watchtower magazine...
*** w86 3/15 p. 12 ‘Do Not Be Quickly Shaken From Your Reason’ ***
Now, what will you do if you are confronted with apostate teaching—subtle reasonings—claiming that what you believe as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is not the truth? For example, what will you do if you receive a letter or some literature, open it, and see right away that it is from an apostate? Will curiosity cause you to read it, just to see what he has to say? You may even reason: ‘It won’t affect me; I’m too strong in the truth. And, besides, if we have the truth, we have nothing to fear. The truth will stand the test.’ In thinking this way, some have fed their minds upon apostate reasoning and have fallen prey to serious questioning and doubt. (Compare James 1:5-8.)
You may find the logic circular and unsatisfying at first. Consider...
"This is God’s true organization."
"If so, why be afraid of hearing out an opposer?"
"Because they might lead you away from God’s true organization."
"But what if the opposers are right?"
"They can’t be right since this is God’s true organization."
"But shouldn’t such an organization withstand honest-hearted scrutiny?"
"It’s thinking like that that has led many away from God’s true organization."
But if you give it time, in the presence of others who have accepted the organization as God's only true channel, you may find it becomes easier and easier to believe as they do. You may come to accept what they have: that there is no truth nor faith in God apart from faith in the Watchtower Society.
Although nearly all of my family members are Jehovah's Witnesses and although I myself served as an elder in the congregation, I now recognize that the organization is not what it purports to be. While there are many fine and wonderful people within it, there are many false and troubling things too. Things that cannot be excused as the simple shortcomings of imperfect men. They amount to gross deception, evil manipulation and idolatry.
These things are most difficult to see for those immersed in the culture surrounding the organization, who endeavor to separate themselves from all others, associating almost exclusively with one another. They are things one cannot comprehend without a willingness to give the organization a clear-minded, honest-hearted, objective investigation. Because the Watchtower Society threatens those who dissent with a branding of "apostate" and shunning, there is much fear in one’s conducting such an investigation. The reasoning encouraged by the Watchtower Society requires the dogmatic rejection of any possibility that "what you believe as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is not the truth." I consider this out of harmony with the scriptures.
(2 Corinthians 13:5) Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU?
This month I will be 39 years old. I have only come into my present understanding of this organization in the last year. None of my Witness friends or family members--including my seventeen year old daughter--know how I feel. I am presently struggling with the most difficult decision I've ever had to make in my life. Either I voice my position and be considered demonized by my entire family along with the only community of friends I've known my whole life, being shunned as an evil enemy…or living a lie.
Unlike the Watchtower Society, I will not tell you to run from what I believe to be wrong. I want you to understand it. Listen to them. Listen closely. But don't ever let them scare you from considering ALL the information. And don't ever let them tell you not to use the mind God gave you--in favor of zombie-like submission to a group of men. Men whose position as God's only channel they preserve by the threat of shunning upon those who dare suggest the emperor may have no clothes.
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Legolas
Well when one CLAIMS to be Gods mouth piece and DEMANDS.. 'don't do this or that or you will be disfellowshipped' ...and then goes ahead themselves and does it ...What do you call that?
Again when one CLAIMS to be gods mouth piece and they protect over 27,000 child molesters .....What do you call them?
The list can go on and on and on!
BTW...Welcome to the board!
Stick around you will learn much!
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diamondblue1974
Its not the hypocrisy in isolation that proves they are a cult although this is relevant; however to limit this question to just hypocrisy would be erroneous in my view; it is therefore necessary to look at the whole picture.
This whole 'cult or no cult' debate is huge and the evidence in support of such proof is extensive, perhaps too extensive to cover in one post. I should refer you to the 'best of' section which is well referenced and contains some useful points of further research.
My own particular issues with the WTS is their ability to control their members in every aspect of their lives; their extremely successful attempts at mind and information control provides determinative (although not conclusive) evidence of them being a cult in my view.
Db74
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diamondblue1974
Oh and how rude of me!
Welcome to the board Psch! Stick around, this site is a great research tool.
DB74
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KW13
Yeh. Welcome to the board, i forgot that too.
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moomanchu
The fact that lives have been affected is understandable.
To what point?
After your dead because of blood doctrines, oh well nobodys perfect they tried there best to interpret scriptures .
my 2 cents
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diamondblue1974
All the human flaws of the organization are reflective of the fact that well, we're all human.
Whilst I agree that they are human their acknowledgement of this is too convenient; their use of this as a excuse is akin to a refusal to take responsibility for their own errors; they do not openly acknowledge their errors unless it has some PR or financial benefit to them. Why is this?
Their doctrinal interpretive flip flops are dressed up as new light or progressive truth when in reality they simply refuse to admit that they were wrong; they cant risk a mass exodus like what happened in 1975. They managed to claw back some growth during the 'increase' in the 1980s and the early 1990's but overall not many are even aware of their previous failed prophesies. Why is that?
You suggest that their information is the most accurate but against what comparisons have you made?
DB74
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juni
Welcome Psyc!
Please visit us as I'm sure you will find that this site will keep you informed on the latest news about the Watchtower Society. A lot of it is not passed on to the congregation from the elders.
We were JWs for 21 years - my husband a MS for most all of that time and I pioneered off and on as we had 4 kids and that is a lot of work. We were viewed as a very mature couple in the "truth" and our family looked upon as a good example. You can read my history - just "Hit" Juni and go to Profile.
Have a great weekend.
Juni
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luna2
I'm not sure where to begin.
There is an idealism that I think most converted JW's (and those studying as adults) have that lends itself to looking for the perfect religion or way of life. You want to discover ANSWERS, as if there is one place, one crystal clear mountain spring of truth that you should be able to find somewhere. The reality is, that if there are such answers or such truth, it is not found within the Watchtower Society. Just because they say they are something, doesn't make it so.
The things that Jehovah's Witnesses promote and teach can sound very good at the beginning. Who doesn't want an end to some of the horrors we see in the world? The idea of a perfect Paradise earth where there is no want or evil or sadness is very attractive. The thought that you too could be working for God to help others find this utopia is also very attractive. How noble a quest and what better way to use your life, eh? The trouble is that it is a fantasy, and it becomes almost impossible for people to live like this day after day, year after year.
I kept thinking that, over time, I would continue improving and developing as a spiritual person. What I found is that, after 20+ years of association, this doesn't happen. JW's are not truly interested in individual development. What they are focused on is the group mentality and performance records. They make quite a show of saying that you can't earn your way into paradise, but if you strip away the rhetoric, isn't that exactly what you are expected to do?
JW's preach perfection, and they do say that they are mere humans, but there is this constant pressure to be perfect. Over time, this becomes wearing and many suffer from depression and wonder why, in Jehovah's oh-so-wonderful organization, this should be the case. Sometimes gross imperfections (lying stealing, sex, child molestation) get swept under the rug and not delt with so that the organization can maintain that clean, white-washed appearance they like to present to the outside world. Did you know that child molestation problems within the congregations were routinely hidden using policies straight from Brooklyn? Did you know that the WTS was involved with the United Nations for a period of ten years...until it was discovered and reported on and then they quickly severed ties? These were not sins of individual witnesses, these were policies and procedures carried out from the very heart of the organization.
If you take a good look at the magazines themselves and break down the articles its rather interesting that you can find backup for opposing points of view: All good, honest-hearted people would want to such and so, but on the other hand it's a conscience matter (so when you refer back to this article looking for proof that we were teaching something that has now been proved to be either dangerous or unpopular, we have an out). Don't you find that troubling? I did.
Take a look back at the very beginnings of this movement. Try to see it with an objective mind. Can you honestly say that with all of the falsehoods they were promoting, that Jesus would have truly chosen Charles T. Russell and the Bible Students for anything? What about all of the dates they promoted, sometimes quite vigorously, for the end of this system? How many chances do you get before it becomes painfully obvious that the Almighty isn't using you for anything? That you are the very definition of a false prophet?
We do talk here quite a lot about individual idiots that we once knew in the congregations. Its amusing. Sometimes it even proves the point that Holy Spirit could not possibly be involved with the selection of certain people as Pioneers, Ministeral Servants, or Elders.
The Watchtower Society is excellent at pointing out the flaws in other religions. Often, they are quite correct in their criticisms. But don't get sucked into thinking that because they are able to pick apart other faiths and point out their hypocricies and weak points, that they are somehow flawless themselves.
Sheesh, I've written a book...so sorry. lol Welcome to the board, phycsnacha. Keep reading. There's a great deal for you to discover here.