by Julie 93 Replies latest jw friends
Scorpion, you're obviously as much of a dork as poor old Rexie. When you can't deal with the evidence, you claim it's a hoax. I suppose you think Hollywood helped NASA fool us into believing men landed on the moon. You Fanatical Fundies are simply laughable! Know this, however: today's events in the U.S. will result in plenty of good restrictions on fanatics like you two.
AlanF
Save your snide comments for another day. The world is just peachy-keen and man has proven himself sane and civilzed, hasn't he Alan? No, this world doesn't need any more of your subversive atheism. Your idiotic attempt to rope all religion into the same corral is just what you find on the bottom of that corral......
This event is going to turn people BACK TO CHRISTIANITY. Watch and see in the coming months (and years?) ahead and right on into the great tribulation. You will probably have front row seat once the rest of us leave the scene.
Rex
Alans lariot throw did not include "all religion" Wrecks, he only mentioned "fanatical fundies". That would be people like you and Osama Bin Laden; you know, fanatical fundies.
Wow!!!!!! Seems like about 90% or so who responded to this thread are non believers in the God of the bible! I do have to wonder how hard these ones have put as much effort in material that proves the bible true as they do in material negative to the bible.
I have wondered if many of the fundamental churches were to crumble for some reason as the borg might some day....how many of these ones would also go atheist? I think the emotional hurt from the borg has much more of a negative effect on x-witnesess than would true christians who would lose their churches for some reason. WHY? because witnesess grew to love the borg and never learned about salvation through grace as do true christians believe.
I can think of no other reason why so many who leave the borg turn atheist.
Once one becomes a true believer...the majority do not ever deny it as do x-witnesess.
Gumby,
I think you got one thing wrong. You questioned whether those who don't believe the Bible have spent as much time researching the validity of the Bible as they have other concepts. Your implication in this question is that they have not. The fact is, that the average xJW knows a great deal about the Bible when they leave. It does not take them long to learn other concepts of the Bible because of their foundation of knowledge. So the answer to your question is, yes, they have researched the Bible and found it wanting. As the writing on the wall as recorded in the book of Daniel was interpreted, "You have been weighed in the balance and found wanting." By the way, the last time I read that scripture was circa 1960. This stuff is burned in our brain, bucky.
For an interesting interpretation of the Bible, see my Sunday School Lesson posted earlier. (Use search at the top of this page and enter the word, School.) Your comments would be welcomed.
AlanF,
You obviously cannot read, or understand what someone types.
I said, "I AM NOT SAYING THIS FIND IS A HOAX, I AM JUST SKEPTICAL."
Do you understand? Do I need to rephrase this to make it easier for you, being you are uncapable of understanding one sentence that is clear as can be?
I see you resort to NASA and the men that landed on the moon that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Is this to take the heat off of your skeleton theory?
I ask you Alan, are there any more Turkana skeleton finds or is this the only one? Seems you have so much faith in one skeleton to prove a theory. SAD! And I thought you were more intellegent than that, proved me wrong about yourself.
You also make the foolish mistake of thinking I am a religious fundie, you are the one who is laughable Alan. BWAAAAHAAAHAAAROTF
And todays events have nothing to do with you making an ass out of yourself with trying to change the subject and make false claims.
Bye!
Rex; Oh Rex baby, have you no response what-so-ever to my refutation of that tired load of aologetic twaddle you posted? Am I beneath your contempt? Are you rude or ignorant?
Gumby; I re-built my belief structure from the ground up. I didn't find evidence for god. Go stuff you assumptions. It would be great if there were a god, honestly, but there isn't.
Scorpion; You use your claims for scepticism to hide your reluctance to re-evaluate your belief structure. Just as god hasn't 'knocked on my door' and proved he exists, you will find evolution doesn't 'knock on you door'. You are asking what would be non-questions if you knew more of the topic, and are using this to defend your postion. Your stance lacks credability.
Hey there WW (a.k.a. Rex)--
There is little I can say to you (not that that will deter me) as you live in a happy little place that I couldn't penetrate in a million years, not that I even care to. I have no desire to try to change your beliefs. I will comment on a few things you said and then give you a brief explanation of my overall view.
First, and most importantly, I was never a JW. I am not quibbling over baptism, I merely "studied" with them. Every week I learned more and more that made no sense to me. For one as simple as you imply I happen to have at least been bright enough to know bullshit when I see it. I never even went to a Kingdom Hall except once for a Memorial (which I thought was utterly ridiculous) so you know what you can do with your assumption on that matter. FYI, I was a Catholic and went to Mass pretty regularly while I studied with JWs. I do not look at the bible with the view of a "jilted lover". As a lifelong Catholic I can assure you I knew little of the bible and as I said in an earlier post (pay attention here WW) my faith had never, repeat never, been anything but a source of comfort to me. So I approached the whole thing with the attitude of a believer who was certain (like you) that those who claimed the bible to be not of God were just mistaken/misguided.
As for your claim that I am a member of the religion of "self", again you are shameful. WW you know nothing of my life. I have experienced more horrible lessons than I care to remember but I have learned and grown from them. First and foremost in my life are my children. Compared to my feelings for them I care nothing of myself. If you want to claim any shred of human decency you will step off with your presumptions of me and my life friend. You don't want to go there because I could share things with you that would make you ashamed of your comments. Suffice to say you were mistaken in your assumptions and you need to refrain from anymore of that about me.
While I don't know a lot about physics I don't believe that is a prerequisite to being able to reason. I think I have a pretty good ability to do this, like I said I didn't fall for the WT-cult's shpeel and that was with little/no bible knowledge. I am hoping you are intellectually honest enough to admit that is pretty good.
As to all that blather you posted, it was a mighty handy little way to avoid addressing those scriptures I posted and wanted explanations for. Sure you try to explain away genocide and do some wonderful gymnastics in order to accomplish this. I must deem your effort a failure though as I still think it is inexcusable. I want you to address the scriptures I posted.
I wasn't being dishonest nor was I hedging at your question of whether I think that maybe there was some influence of man on scripture. My answer reflected the fact that I think the bible is entirely influenced by man. Pretty plain IMO but I suspect you have an aversion to simplicity.
Here's the real scoop WW--I came into this whole thing when some JWs knocked on my door. I started to learn about the bible and was a little disappointed when I read more than the happy little sections I always heard in church. I looked into it. Now here's where it gets simple so try not to be disappointed.
I read story after story of violence, hatred and horrible injustice. I start to wonder why these things would be in a book of instruction, or guidance, from God. In just about every book I look for enlightenment and find none. I see things that are worse than some of the horrible movies out today. I am appalled. Nowhere do I see encouragement for education to use these wonderful brains God gave us. I see nothing about how to improve the world we were given to enjoy for our lifetimes. I see superstition, not knowledge. Nowhere do I see encouragement to strive to realize our full potential as humans. I see a horrible disregard for human life, like the scripture that tells us that if we have a rebellious child we should take him to the elders and stone him. I mean how barbaric is that? I also notice that the OT is rife with genocide etc, by "God's people" and then in the NT we are suddenly all God's people. Well which is it? Cannot God make up his mind?
I did not approach the bible with the view that lengthy, "scholarly" explanations are needed to accompany it in order to understand it. I didn't need such to understand the WT is a crock of shit and I was right. I read the bible, I understand what I read and I am convinced that God could have done waaaaaaay better if we were intended to have a Rule Book. Just as the Turner Diaries served as a wonderful instruction manual for Tim I-am-a-lunatic McViegh, I think the bible has served as a fine example for many who have committed atrocities "in the name of God" (i.e. the Crusades).
I am not one to overly complicate things. There is no need to do so. If the bible is God's word than I should think you could open it to any page and find enlightenment but instead we find quite the opposite. I mean look at the lengths you went to to try to explain away the atrocities in the bible (not the ones I mention of course, you pick your own as there are so many to choose from). I suppose there are many folks on the planet who can excuse away the terrorist attacks on America yesterday too. Horror is horror is horror. You can dance all you want but I can tell you that the nastiness in the bible is just that. It isn't high-brow nastiness that the masses are incapable of understanding--it's just plain old barbaric behavior.
You said:
I can tell you why I believe it is the word of God. I cannot prove to you that it is. Belief comes from within.
That is the most honest thing you said WW. There is no proof the bible is of God and no matter how many books I read about the bible there is still no proof. I see quite the opposite actually but you already know that.
Maybe there is a God, I do not claim to know. I merely reject the assertion that the bible is of God. Does that make me not as good as one who does believe so? No but many hold that view. You yourself said believing in the bible is a faith thing, not a factual thing. Fine I accept that and hold no grudge against those who believe. I DO have a problem with those who are critical of me and people who share my views. We merely see the horrors in the bible and reject the idea that there is anything divine there. When I see snide remarks directed at those who hold such a dissenting view I feel the need to make a point.
So hey, if you can just go ahead and justify/explain/spin those scriptures I listed I might just change my view. Until then, I will remain where I am; Merely appreciating the gift of life I have without the haughty presumption I am entitled to more.
Respectfully--
Julie
Ah, Scorpion, I see you're now resorting to lying to cover over your idiotic skepticism. You have absolutely no reason to doubt the genuineness of the skeleton. I've been reading about the thing in various sources since 1984, starting with a 1984 National Geographic magazine. I've read material in various scientific journals, and in several books including Origins Reconsidered, where Richard Leakey, one of the discoverers, describes it.
Your expressions as a whole don't merely describe skepticism -- they bespeak complete nonacceptance. And disbelief based on what? What else could it be but the ignorance so characteristic of fundamentalist Christianity? The ignorance of the young-earth creationist whose entire world hangs on belittling facts that would collapse it if accepted.
Put the following three statements together -- statements without a shred of evidence or even a shred of a link to a skeptical source reference, and what picture does it paint of your beliefs?
: Are you sure the picture of the Turkana boy skeleton is not a hoax?
: Have you seen the actual skeleton or are you taking for granted the picture is real?
: If you have seen the skeleton, how do you know it was not tampered with?
Your desperation is apparent. Just why would I think the picture might be a hoax? I've seen the bloody thing for 17 years in many references. How could anyone not a certified paleontologist get access to the skeleton? These things are guarded so that hardly anyone can see the originals. Most paleontologists can only get plaster casts. Your statement, "are you sure the picture is real?" proes your "NASA fooled you" mentality. How could anyone not a specialized forensic paleontologist know for certain that the skeleton had not been tampered with? Again your question demands unreasonable certitude on my part. I don't need to travel to New York to accept that the the World Trade Center is no more. I "seen it on TV"! Will you be skeptical just because you don't like what you see?
You're the one making a complete ass out of himself if you can't see that statements such as you've made reveal, not simple skepticism which means a reservation of judgment, but an already-made judgment and nonacceptance.
If you had any evidence whatsoever for your "skepticism", you'd write about it instead of stomping through the standard mire of Fundy excuses to avoid the facts.
AlanF
ABADDON says to me..."go STUFF your assuptions. That comment is so typicall of ones who now have no hope. Why do you get so defensive at my post? And how can you ASSUME those who now do not believe in God have reserched enoughed to not believe in him. If they have weighed out both sides...then the choice is theirs. But you have no idea wether they have or not except for the handfull of ones you personally know. (you may know more than a handfull so no need to write back with a nasty post that you do)
Try being a liitle melower in your responses with those you don't agree with dude.
