Extra training ... so you know that shooting babies is WRONG ?!?

by Simon 146 Replies latest social current

• 

  cruzanheart

  War cannot be stopped until each human life is as important as another.

  The life of a thirty year old marine, is as important as the life of an unborn infant or a six year old girl.

  Amen to that. I'm glad that this is being investigated as murder and not just casualties of war. I'm disgusted that it was covered up for as long as it has been.

  It does come down to personal responsibility, though. Blame Bush all you want, but bottom line is those men CHOSE to pull the trigger on innocent civilians. They were not forced or ordered to do so. Their sense of right and wrong should have stopped them, but obviously it didn't. Yes, war is hell and mistakes happen, but this appears to have been deliberate and hopefully will be prosecuted that way.

  If Americans were the ONLY people who snapped during war or performed atrocities on people of other countries, I would hide my head in shame at Simon's scathing remarks. I might even feel forced to wear a burqa. But they're not (and I won't). Every single country in the world that has an army has had atrocities attributed to that army, including the UN "Peacekeeping" Forces. Every single leader of a country who has ordered troops to war bears responsibility for the people killed during that war. Making this latest atrocity a political platform to blast the Yanks is tiresome.

  Really, I think the cause of peace would be better served if we quit trying to put the blame on one leader or one country (even if it's our own) and try, each of us, to make the world a better and more peaceful place, looking at people and not countries. Oh, and I didn't vote for Bush, by the way. Wouldn't think of it. I still remember when he owned the Texas Rangers baseball team and he sucked at that too.

  Nina
• 

  Fleur

  "You leader Tony Blair supports the war!!!!111" is similarly idiotic, just because our PM blindly follows Bush into an illegal *mess* of a war, it doesn't mean the British people support it; we aren't sheep. Do any of you know how many people out of the whole population of Britain actually voted for Blair at the last election? 2,400.

  Um, I think you're referring to my post, and if you are, thank you for calling me an idiot, very kind of you. But, isn't this the very same point I tried to make about Bush??? I don't think anybody is listening. Repeat after me: Just because the president is behind this war does not mean that your average American is. Repeat until the meaning of the words sinks in.

  Simon, you don't have the answers either. Or if you do, please call up the Powers that Be and have them put into place, immediately so the bloodshed can end. My own opinion and that only is that we we never had any business going there, we shouldn't be staying there now. I hold the people behind the war responsible for not only the lives of the precious children who have died but also for every serviceman of every country that has died as well. But unfortunately if I try to recall the troops, no one will listen so it's just as frustrating for me as it is apparently for you.

  I just don't see the benefit in lashing out at an entire country of people for what a few in power are doing. But I guess I need to remember that this is Simon's house, he can decorate it here any way he likes and I really have no right to say anything.

  So with that, I leave you all to duke it out in this thread...

  essie
• 

  Gregor

  Abaddon, (you sound angry) interesting list. Not quite sure who came of with the rating system or what ax they were grinding but I suspect it's quite similar to how various judges in the Olympics come up with scores for ice skating competitions!

  Here's something you may have overlooked about the list. Note the countries marked with an "X"

  113 Ireland 2.5 X
  
  #114 Belgium 2.4 X
  
  #115 Germany 2.3 X
  
  #116 Hong Kong 2 X
  
  #117 Austria 2 X
  
  #118 United Kingdom 1.3 X
  
  #119 Canada 1.3
  
  #120 Luxembourg 1.3 X
  
  #121 Switzerland 1.2 X
  
  #122 Australia 1.2
  
  #123 Norway 1.2 X
  
  #124 Netherlands 1.1 X
  
  #125 Sweden 0.7 X
  
  #126 Singapore 0.6 X
  
  #127 New Zealand 0.5
  
  #128 Denmark 0.5 X
  
  #129 Iceland 0.4 ?
  
  #130 Finland 0.3 X

  The marked countries all had their respective asses saved from either the Nazis or the Imperial Japanese army primarily by we corrupt, mean, selfish Americans in WWII.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  "You leader Tony Blair supports the war!!!!111" is similarly idiotic, just because our PM blindly follows Bush into an illegal *mess* of a war, it doesn't mean the British people support it; we aren't sheep. Do any of you know how many people out of the whole population of Britain actually voted for Blair at the last election? 2,400.

  By the way, just because Bush is a bloodthirsty idiot, doesn't mean the all of the American people support him; we aren't sheep. Do any of you Brits realize how many people did NOT vote for Bush? And it's been proven that many of the votes counted for Bush, in Ohio alone, were not actual votes because the voters did not exist. Another thing you should realize is that some who voted for Bush do not support him now, nor do they support the Iraq war. You want us to know you don't support Blair. You didn't vote for him and you don't support the Iraq War. We want you to know that you owe us the same respect. I wish I could say all Americans have learned not to blindly trust any president. I can't. But I can tell you that you are grossly misinformed if you dream the majority of Americans support Bush or this war. Bush's general approval rating is down near 30 % now. And it doesn't mean those of that 30 % blindly supports this war.

  Human nature is human nature. Americans are human. Brits are human.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  To add to my last comment: I did not vote for Bush, either time. Here is an e-mail I just received from the candidate I did vote for. I get e-mails from him regularly asking for support in bringing our troops home. If you are angry with GW Bush, then so be it, I don't blame you for your anger. But do not include all of us in that anger.
  
  

  	Dear Heather, It's as simple as this. Most members of Congress, myself included, share some responsibility for getting us into Iraq. We've got to take responsibility for getting us out. Since April, hundreds of thousands of you have joined me in calling for a change in policy, a change in course -- for Iraq, and for Americans here at home. Now let's turn the volume up higher. Washington needs to hear your voice. The violence continues to spiral in Iraq. But, instead of a deadline to bring our troops home and put the future of Iraq in the hands of Iraqi leaders, we get half-hearted comments about past mistakes, and cynical political calculation. Last month, I introduced Senate Joint Resolution 36 which calls for the withdrawal of our combat troops from Iraq by the end of this year. In the next few weeks, I am urging the Senate to take a strong stand on Iraq and pass this Resolution. It's time to put the future of Iraq where it belongs - in the hands of the Iraqi people and their leaders. Our valiant soldiers have done their job. Tell your Senators: support Senate Joint Resolution 36 to bring our combat troops home in 2006 President Bush wants to stumble along, perpetuating his mistakes for the remainder of his time in office. He's even suggested that decisions about withdrawing all of our troops from Iraq will be for the next president to make. And, instead of statesmanship, the president's top advisor, Karl Rove, is worrying that the war has put voters in a "sour mood" for the 2006 elections. He should be worried about the safety of our troops, not the job security of Republican congressmen. It took President Bush three years to admit he was wrong to say 'bring it on.' We can't afford years to go by until he admits the standstill in Iraq today is wrong. Tell your Senators: support Senate Joint Resolution 36 to bring our combat troops home in 2006 After months of squabbling and delay, we now hear that the new Iraqi government will complete its cabinet in a matter of days. So, it's time to act -- time to keep the pressure on. Iraqi leaders have only responded to deadlines -- a deadline to transfer authority to a provisional government, a deadline to hold three elections, and their own constitutional deadline to establish a unity government. Now we must set another deadline to get our combat troops out and get Iraq up on its own two feet. We must agree with the new Iraqi government on a schedule for withdrawing American combat forces by the end of this year. Doing so will empower the new Iraqi leadership, put Iraqis in the position of running their own country, and undermine support for the insurgency, which is fueled in large measure by the majority of Iraqis who want us to leave their country. Tell your Senators: support Senate Joint Resolution 36 to bring our combat troops home in 2006 Our soldiers have done their job, and America is grateful to them for their honor and sacrifice. Now it's time for the Iraqis to do their job of securing and governing their country and it is time to get our combat troops home in 2006. Only troops essential to finishing the job of training Iraqi forces should remain. We need blunt talk and clear plans -- and only pressure from you can force Washington to change course. I am committed to forcing Congress to speak out on Iraq. Yesterday in Los Angeles I made it clear that I'm not going to stop fighting until we have a change in policy. I urge you to keep supporting our efforts to force action when lives are on the line and leadership is desperately needed. Sincerely, John Kerry
• 

  Mastodon

  When I worte "C" average President, I meant that, that was his actual avaerage grades in school/college. A dumbass who every business that his daddy gave him, he completly ran aground. A fine executive he is... not!
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Yes, Mastadon, George Jr. sure was born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth. He's just dumb enough to make an excellent puppet for Rove, Cheney and others. If he hadn't been HW Bush's son, they'd never have thrown their support behind this idiot. Ever see the movie The Patsy with Jerry Lewis starring? GW is like a presidential version of the character. A group of people are making it big with a comedian that dies on them, so they choose Jerry Lewis to be their patsy. They groom him to become a star so they can continue to live their lavish lifestyles and have him foot the bill. An idiot like GW Bush could never become prez without his daddy becoming prez first and a man like Rove to push him along and say the right things.
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  The marked countries all had their respective asses saved from either the Nazis or the Imperial Japanese army primarily by we corrupt, mean, selfish Americans in WWII.

  Although I share your view that the world owes America a debt of gratitude for our defense of civilization and the values of Western Civilization, I have to point out that the Brits had pretty much turned the corner in Africa and Europe while the Ruskies had done so in Asia. The Nazis were going down. We just made it happen sooner with less Allied bloodshed.

  If you are cool, you don't have to tell people. They just know.

  Now if you want to talk about the damn Ruskies we can talk about saving alot of respective asses...
• 

  Simon

  If I might add a few more comparisons I'll begin with Mr.NumberOneOnTrial for Crimes Against Humanity, Saddam Hussein who killed innocent civilians as a matter of routine, and often in large batches.

  How many have Bush and co killed now? If it's more than Saddam (and it is at a much faster rate, they've only been at it a few years don't forget) then you we get to legitimately bomb the shit out of Washington and accept American civilian deaths as "acceptable collateral damage"?

  The marked countries all had their respective asses saved from either the Nazis or the Imperial Japanese army primarily by we corrupt, mean, selfish Americans in WWII.

  LOL. The old "we saved your asses in WWII so you should always support everything we do for ever more no matter what it is" argument eh?

  Lets get something straight. You faught the war for your own ends. You proffited from the war because we bought arms from you. You didn't enter when you were needed, only when attacked. We stood alone against Nazi Germany and protected you.

  You've obviously been watching too many hollywood films and have believed the propagandist indoctrinised history that was peddled on you.
• 

  Big Tex

  I have to point out that the Brits had pretty much turned the corner in Africa and Europe while the Ruskies had done so in Asia. The Nazis were going down. We just made it happen sooner with less Allied bloodshed

  To be fair also, I'd like to point out that England fought Hitler alone, after France fell, for nearly 2 years before America joined the war. It was England (and France), not America who stood up to Germany's aggression and invasion of Poland in 1939. America alone did not win WWII. It was a united effort involving America, England and the Soviet Union that defeated the Axis powers.

  Chris