SELF-SACRIFICE: the tool of the MYSTICS

by Terry 105 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Terry

A brief treatise on MYSTICISM.
Mysticism begins with a code of "morality" just beyond the reach of humanity. Guilt ensues; man cannot achieve this lofty standard of behavior.
Man is lacking, you see.
??How can man abolish this guilt and live up to the perfect standard of :
1.Oneness with the universe
2.Oneness with God or the great spirit
3.Physical/or/spiritual perfection 4.Perfect Knowledge
???????????????????????????????????
From man's lack, imperfection, failure, impotency and ignorance comes not only an answer, but, a procedure for making himself whole.
Man must take the blame.
Man must humble himself.
Man must identify the TRUE SOURCE of information, perfection, wisdom and atonement.
Hint: Somebody is going to be standing between quivering man and the "answer" to his problems. That somebody is the mystic. He is a broker.
Mystics offer a code of morality requiring SELF-SACRIFICE!
Guess what? Somebody has to stand there and accept the sacrifice/payment ON BEHALF of the greater power! (Hint: getting wealthy!)
Historically these go-betweens; these brokers take two forms: SOCIETY or GOD.
INTERMEDIARIES collect the sacrifices.
To participate you must:
1.Accept allegations (about mankind) without proof
2.Refuse to allow your reasoning to find flaws in the procedure
3.Accept as a foundational premise that KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM AND TRUTH COME FROM:
A. NON-SENSORY
B. NON-RATIONAL
C.NON-DEFINABLE
D. NON-IDENTIFIABLE
Means such as "instinct" or "intuition" or "revelation" or any form of "JUST KNOWING"
Yes, a conversion experience! Then, you just do as you are told. YOUR VALUE comes from the total amount of your SACRIFICE on behalf of the group and the leader. The less of "you" there is; the greater your attributed value to the group. That is why the ultimate TRUE BELIEVER is willing to DIE for his beliefs. Whispering in the ear of the "martyr" is the MYSTIC issuing instructions: 1.How to go to prison 2.How to give a witness 3.How to let their child die as testimony 4.How to strap on the dynamite belt and operate the detonator SELF-SACRIFICE diminishes you as a person and as a thinking/reasoning human being because your assets and your energies are diluted. But, you see---you are expendable! Your willingness to GIVE demonstrates the very POWER (offered by the mystic) of the CAUSE ITSELF! The more spectacular the sacrifices the more free advertisement is gained for the Power of the Cause! Ask yourself this question just about Jehovah's Witnesses: How do they identify themselves as contrasted with other Christian religions? Answer: BY THEIR WILLINGNESS TO SACRIFICE THEMSELVES! The body count is key! How many people went door to door? They have a number. This religion is a burnt-offering in which the people seeking God's approval are the firewood that lights the sky advertising the recruitment rally for new members! MYSTICISM is at the core of Jehovah's Witnesses just as it is the foundation of religion itself.
LittleToe

And war. Don't forget the boys who gave their lives so that we could retain ours.
"We honour our fallen..."
Oh, and don't forget firemen, they deserve our plaudits, too...
Terry

And war. Don't forget the boys who gave their lives so that we could retain ours.
"We honour our fallen..."
Oh, and don't forget firemen, they deserve our plaudits, too...

The reason why one person gives is as important as the giving itself.
These are not "causeless" sacrifices.
You seek to blur the issue by making any possible sacrifice the same as one driven by false religious devaluation of humanity.
LittleToe

You seek to blur the issue...

While I may be at the other end of the canoe, I'm not the only one in that particular boat.
SixofNine

Bringing war into the discussion is hardly bluring the issue.

If a person is convinced to sacrifice after having been fed demonstrably false information about the reality of a political situation (thereby creating a "devaluation of humanity"), then surely that sacrifice is aptly compared with "one driven by false religious devaluation of humanity".
Midget-Sasquatch
I think that those who try to use "mystical" experiences as a basis to encourage self-sacrificing for:
- a very exclusionary god
- for a particular group
shouldn't really be calling those claimed experiences mystical. Ideally, mysticism has a unifying universalist bent. Yes, people are called to sacrifice for society, but several mystics that I've read usually take this to mean all of humanity not just their race or those of their creed.
So how then could some altruistic behaviour now and again be detrimental to the collective species?
Terry

You seek to blur the issue...

While I may be at the other end of the canoe, I'm not the only one in that particular boat.
And which sailor is the one giving definitions....hmmmm?
Terry

So how then could some altruistic behaviour now and again be detrimental to the collective species?

The moral code of Altruism is that man has no right to exist for himself or his own sake alone. Service to others is the only justification for his existence. Consequently, the "highest" moral duty is self-sacrifice.
Is there any difference between kindness, goodness and respect for others and ALTRUSIM?
Yes.
The self is considered the source of Evil in Altruism. (Sinful, imperfect, immoral, depraved, all fleshly appetites, etc.) With this view of the human "self" it logically follows that SELFLESSNESS is the highest standard of good.
Is the issue whether to be charitable or not?
No. The fundamental philosophical foundation of ALTRUISM isn't whether you should or shouldn't give a quarter to a homeless beggar. The fundamental philosophical issue is whether or not you have the right to exist without justifying your own existence by giving a quarter to a homeless beggar.
An Altruist buys his right to life one quarter at a time; one "self-less" act at a time by allowing the NEED of others to be a mortgage on their life.
The moral purpose of your existence must stem from SOMETHING. Which is it? Is it the right to live for your SELF or only as the means to the end of the needs of the "others"?
1. What are values?
2.Who should be the beneficiary of of values?
ALTRUISM EVADES defining the source of values by substituting the needs of "others" for the right to exist for your own self.
Altruism declares: "any action taken for the benefit of others is morally superior to an action taken to benefit the self."
Subtle point: THE CRITERION OF VALUE becomes the weak person's need rather than the right of existence of the self.
Justice IS getting what you earn.
A weakness and a need is not earned. Weakness is a default of FAILURE to EARN.
Robdar

Um, Terry, as a mystic, I really do not know what you are talking about or where you've gotten your information about mysticism. A brief treatise on MYSTICISM.
Mysticism begins with a code of "morality" just beyond the reach of humanity. Guilt ensues; man cannot achieve this lofty standard of behavior. My mystic experience did not begin with a code of morality. It began with a desire to walk my own path and to make my own discoveries. Man is lacking, you see. I beg to differ. Humans are not lacking. Everything that we need is here within us.
??How can man abolish this guilt and live up to the perfect standard of :
1.Oneness with the universe
2.Oneness with God or the great spirit
3.Physical/or/spiritual perfection 4.Perfect Knowledge
??????????????????????????????????? As a mystic, I understand that nothing is required of me to be one with the universe. It is simply a fact. For you, for me, for all others. Oneness with God will never be achieved in the manner of which you are referring. There is no imperfection, only labels on what somebody perceives as imperfection.
From man's lack, imperfection, failure, impotency and ignorance comes not only an answer, but, a procedure for making himself whole.
Man must take the blame.
Man must humble himself.
Man must identify the TRUE SOURCE of information, perfection, wisdom and atonement.
Hint: Somebody is going to be standing between quivering man and the "answer" to his problems. That somebody is the mystic. He is a broker. Um, are you sure that you haven't confused mysticism with Narcotics Annonymous' 12 step program?
Mystics offer a code of morality requiring SELF-SACRIFICE! Buddy, I'm not sacrificing anything that I do not wish to sacrifice. A gift given can only be a true gift if it is not coerced.
Guess what? Somebody has to stand there and accept the sacrifice/payment ON BEHALF of the greater power! (Hint: getting wealthy!)
Historically these go-betweens; these brokers take two forms: SOCIETY or GOD.
INTERMEDIARIES collect the sacrifices.
To participate you must:
1.Accept allegations (about mankind) without proof
2.Refuse to allow your reasoning to find flaws in the procedure
3.Accept as a foundational premise that KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM AND TRUTH COME FROM:
A. NON-SENSORY
B. NON-RATIONAL
C.NON-DEFINABLE
D. NON-IDENTIFIABLE
Means such as "instinct" or "intuition" or "revelation" or any form of "JUST KNOWING"
Yes, a conversion experience! Then, you just do as you are told. YOUR VALUE comes from the total amount of your SACRIFICE on behalf of the group and the leader. The less of "you" there is; the greater your attributed value to the group. That is why the ultimate TRUE BELIEVER is willing to DIE for his beliefs. Whispering in the ear of the "martyr" is the MYSTIC issuing instructions: 1.How to go to prison 2.How to give a witness 3.How to let their child die as testimony 4.How to strap on the dynamite belt and operate the detonator SELF-SACRIFICE diminishes you as a person and as a thinking/reasoning human being because your assets and your energies are diluted. But, you see---you are expendable! Your willingness to GIVE demonstrates the very POWER (offered by the mystic) of the CAUSE ITSELF! The more spectacular the sacrifices the more free advertisement is gained for the Power of the Cause! Ask yourself this question just about Jehovah's Witnesses: How do they identify themselves as contrasted with other Christian religions? Answer: BY THEIR WILLINGNESS TO SACRIFICE THEMSELVES! The body count is key! How many people went door to door? They have a number. This religion is a burnt-offering in which the people seeking God's approval are the firewood that lights the sky advertising the recruitment rally for new members! MYSTICISM is at the core of Jehovah's Witnesses just as it is the foundation of religion itself. I would hardly call a JW a mystic. Not even close. I'm sorry to break it to you, your post has nothing to do with mysticism. But it does seem to be a way for you to preach the Ayn Rand philosophy. You do not understand the mystic or what the mystic is all about. I still think that you are brilliant, though. Robyn
Narkissos

We have discussed that extensively before. Terry persists in using his own definition of "mysticism" which embraces the whole of "religion," whereas "mysticism" in common usage refers to one very specific aspect of religion. According to my old Chambers Dictionary, mysticism is defined as "the habit or tendency of religious thought and feeling of those who seek direct communion with God or the divine" (emphasis mine). Iow he confuses the figure of the mystic with that of the priest, whose function is mediation between the divine and the community. Mediation is antithetic to mysticism. Of course the priest can use the mystic but they are different -- see for instance how Nietzsche refers differently to those figures.
This being said, I agree that self-sacrifice or, more deeply, what Freud called the "death drive" is essential to mysticism, because it is about connecting the separate individual with the universal, beyond finitude and death. The mystical amor mortis can certainly be used politically, socially and economically. And the mystic often lets him/herself be used in that way with some naïveté. But that is not what mysticism is essentially about.

SELF-SACRIFICE: the tool of the MYSTICS

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