SELF-SACRIFICE: the tool of the MYSTICS

by Terry 105 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  LittleToe

  Terry:

  And which sailor is the one giving definitions....hmmmm?

  Popeye?

  Btw, I'm totally freaked out. Six has just agreed with something I posted on a mystic thread
• 

  Terry

  in common usage refers to one very specific aspect of religion. According to my old Chambers Dictionary, mysticism is defined as "the habit or tendency of religious thought and feeling of those who seek direct communion with God or the divine"

  I don't deny the desire of people to commune with god directly.

  That is at the heart of the god hunger in "spiritual people"

  But, it doesn't work that way in the REAL WORLD.

  Spiritual people don't think on their own. They seek advice. They seek the views, theories, orthodoxies of others. These "others" are the salesment of Mysticism.

  The circle is never unbroken.

  Hunger for God

  Awareness of a marketplace of ideas about God.

  Books, tapes, places of worship, sermons, etc.

  BUMP!

  Oh dear! Our devout "seeker" has just bumped into a mystic!

  The SOURCE of information; the channel of communication; the pool of awareness is fed by the jargon of the Mystic.

  Were this not so we'd all be Lone Ranger worshippers.

  Instead we find groupings according to orthodoxy.

  The first thing you learn in religion is who is evil and who must be avoided!
• 

  Terry

  And which sailor is the one giving definitions....hmmmm?

  Popeye?

  Btw, I'm totally freaked out. Six has just agreed with something I posted on a mystic thread

  I quite understand your astonishment.
• 

  Narkissos

  OK, Terry, I sort of knew it was useless. Have fun.
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  trevor

  The difficulty is that man, for most of his existence, has not understood the world he lives in and been unable to negotiate with reality in terms that make sense. Religion has gained control of people by claming to be in touch with reality. That is an invisible reality that cannot be understood without holy books, which to be holy need the endorsement of those in power. For example the Bible may not have survived without the help of the Roman Catholic Church.

  People now days have access to facts about the nature of our world and universe that did not exist before.

  This changes enables people to be more objective in deciding what they accept. The problem is that without religion of belief we come face to face with the stark possibility that we as humans are responsible for our world and its future. The awesome responsibility of that is too much for many to bear. Religion allows them to pass that responsibility onto an invisible being.

  This enables people to live their short lives, safe in the belief that all will be well and they don’t have to worry. It is a trade off - pay the premium and relax. This is why here has always been room for religion or mysticism and it is likely there always will be. The world may advance more quickly if it were devoid of all such buffers but a world without such an escape could prove to be too much for many people.

  The danger of organised religion that teaches hatred of the infidel, is that it can become fanatical and threaten the very future of life on earth. That extreme possibility must not be confused with a peaceful personal faith.

  I see both points of view and realise that the balance we have, although a long way from perfect, allows people with faith to sleep soundly at night. What is right for one person is unacceptable for another.

  To keep a small window open to the possibility that experiences people have had that cause them to have faith, is wise and encourages tolerance and empathy.

  What if…………………..?
• 

  Robdar

  Terry, you just don't get it, do you? I feel as if I am talking to a tree. Wait a minute, as a mystic, I do that often.
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  Terry

  OK, Terry, I sort of knew it was useless. Have fun.

  I admire your intellect and your manner of objective expression, Narkissos. Don't run off!

  You are fact oriented and not prone to silliness.

  I think we have a semantic disagreement and not much more than that.
• 

  kid-A

  "This being said, I agree that self-sacrifice or, more deeply, what Freud called the "death drive" is essential to mysticism, because it is about connecting the separate individual with the universal, beyond finitude and death"

  I'm not sure how you are conflating Freuds concept of "Thanatos" with mysticism? Freud described the death drive as biological in nature stemming from a biologically driven motivation to return to an inorganic state. In addition, where did Freud insinuate that the Thanatos had anything whatsoever to do with "self-sacrifice"? Freud used the Thanatos as a psychodynamic explanation for the brutal violence he observed during world war 1, whereupon he revised his "Pleasure Principle" to incorporate its psychological polar opposite, the Thanatos.

  If I am wrong, I stand corrected. But I would be curious to see how Thanatos can be conceptually related to either "self-sacrifice" or mysticism on any level. Freud avoided any metaphysical suggestions like the plague and ultimately believed that all human behaviours and drives would be explained in purely neurobiological terms.

  "The Death instinct was first elaborated by Freud in his paper Beyond the Pleasure Principle (1920) . He has described it as a biological instinct directed toward the organism's return to the inorganic state 9. According to Freud, an instinct or tendency toward own death, via the re-establishment of the state of nirvana, state of equilibrium, return, regression of the organism as a chemically organic colloid into an inorganic substance, is inherent to human beings as well as to all living creatures.
  From the very beginning of life, the disintegrating instinct of elements in the highly complex biological molecule has been immanently active, constituting the core of autodestructive tendencies subsequently superimposed by the functional structures of ego and superego. As differentiated from the animal instinct (Eros, libido), intended to combine elements into larger units to serve life and its propagation, the instinct of death serves destructuralization, dissolution, and death in a limited sense . Freud emphasized the biological aspect of death instinct, thus his theory has been understood as a partially defensive biological speculation."
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  Terry

  Terry, you just don't get it, do you? I feel as if I am talking to a tree. Wait a minute, as a mystic, I do that often.

  It?

  Maybe barking up the wrong tree should cause you to branch out and turn over a new leaf.

  I bough to your wisdom. I don't arbor any resentments.

  (Badda bing!)
• 

  Robdar

  It?

  Maybe barking up the wrong tree should cause you to branch out and turn over a new leaf.

  I bough to your wisdom. I don't arbor any resentments.

  LMAO!!! This is the best belly laugh I've had all month!