For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled 601 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  thirdwitness

  Jeffro said: In verse 29, Jesus is baptized.

  I think if you read the verses you will find that this is not the case at all. Jesus was not baptized in verse 29. John is merely telling others about what happened when Jesus was baptized. He was baptized sometime ealier than this. Otherwise John could not be telling what happened when he was baptized.

  Of course this has nothing to do with the 40 year desolation of Egypt except maybe to prove that the Bible is not reliable and therefore the Bible contradicting 587 theory is correct.
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  AuldSoul

  thirdwitness, Does everything Jehovah inspires prophets to speak come about exactly as prophesied, yes or no?

  Still waiting. It is so simple. Your entire side-argument regarding 40 years of desolation for Egypt depends on you being able to directly answer this question in the affirmative, yet you continue to refuse to do so. So very, very sad. A defender of the "true faith" incapable of answering a yes or no question.

  AuldSoul
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  Jeffro

  I understand that you mean Ezek 29:19-20 but even that reasoning is in error. If you will read the preceeding verse, verse 18, you will see that he is to be rewarded Egypt not for his service against Jerusalem but for his service against Tyre who made fun of Jerusalem. And since the foretold desolation of Egypt likely happened two years after the prophecy was made here is what you are saying:
  
  Jehovah watched Neb desolate Jerusalem and saw how he treated the exiles for 17 years afterwards. Then he uttered the final prophecy against Egypt. Then during the 18th or 19th year of exile Jehovah suddenly realized what Neb had done to his people and changed his mind about giving Egypt to Neb. And on what do you base this illogical explanation? Pure conjecture. Make up any argument to disprove JWs regardless of how silly the argument.

  I merely provided a possible explanation, as it is indeed possible that Babylonian treatment of the exiles did become more harsh, though the bible account does not provide sufficient information. However, as previously explained, the number 40 may have been symbolic, or it may simply have been an error. The fact remains that there is no evidence at all of a 40 year desolation of Egypt apart from your admitted wishful thinking that you hope might have been on a damaged Babylonian chronicle.

  As to the suitability of Ezekiel 29:19-20 to my point, you are indeed correct, and I should have read more carefully. And typical of your ilk, you will probably imagine that because I got one thing wrong, that suddenly all of your arguments are somehow superior.

  However, the fact remains that Babylon was chosen to execute judgement on Jerusalem, and was then punished for its treatment of Jerusalem, so either Babylon did exceed punishment "to the proper degree", or the judgement against Babylon was unjust. It is therefore consistent that Nebuchadnezzar, or his progeny, fell out of favour and did not maintain their stranglehold on Egypt.

  Again, how much are you selling that Brooklyn Bridge for?

  I'm not sure what this piece of drivel is in reference to, though I remember you've addressed it to AlanF before, not me, so 'again' is irrelevant.
• 

  AlanF

  As I said, thirdwitless, you continue refusing to answer relevant questions. Your words above are mere excuses as to why you shouldn't.

  JW lurkers, continue to take note.

  AlanF
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  Jeffro

  I think if you read the verses you will find that this is not the case at all. Jesus was not baptized in verse 29. John is merely telling others about what happened when Jesus was baptized. He was baptized sometime ealier than this. Otherwise John could not be telling what happened when he was baptized.

  Obviously Jesus was not baptized during the actual recounting of the narrative, which could have been written any amount of time after the events, however that does not change the fact that the narrative describes a sequence of events that specifically involves Jesus' movements over an unbroken number of days that included both his baptism and the wedding in Cana. It really is unclear what point you imagine it is that you're making.

  Of course this has nothing to do with the 40 year desolation of Egypt except maybe to prove that the Bible is not reliable and therefore the Bible contradicting 587 theory is correct.

  Your comment is of course rediculous. As you well know, the two accounts are completely separate, so accuracy in one of the accounts has no bearing at all on the accuracy of the other.
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  jayhawk1

  Hillary_Step wrote:

  : Are you up for this challenge ThirdWitness? If you wish, you may engage the help of Scholar in this enterprise.

  Oooh! Oooh! Yaaahh!

  We really, really, really should petition Simon to reinstate Fred Hall! Three Stooges In Defense of the Watchtower, unite! Throw off your chains! Smash those wiley apostates!

  AlanF

  Rewrite of Revelation 20:2,3 (2) And Simon siezed the dragon, the origional serpent who is Fred Hall and bound him for a thousand years. (3) And Simon hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over Fred Hall that Fred Hall might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things Fred Hall must be let loose for a little while. AlanF, your statement above made me think of this. LOL!
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  Hellrider

  ONE more thing fior ThirdWitness (that I believe noone has yet pointed out, correct me if I am mistaken about that): You claim that Egypt was "desolated" for 40 years, between 588 and 548. And we have tried to hint to this "desolation" being symbolical, cut short, or to at least not have been to the extent you claim. In other words, by "desolation", you mean complete desolation, emptying a land of its inhabitants, turning it into a desert (?) for the whole 40-year period. Still, according to your chart, Egypt recovers really damn quickly (...) to forge a military alliance with Babylon only one, maximum two, years after its desolation ended...

  I wonder: How much do you know about politics, war preparations, building infrastructure etc, not just in our day, but how all this worked 2500 years ago? You`re telling us that in one, or less than two years, Egypt was able to:

  - Rebuild its entire infrastructure.

  - Train civil servants, set opp political and bureacratic institutions, and get the entire bureacracy going.

  - Recruit, train and equip and army, that must have been of considerable size, as Egypt is now considered Babylons allied (lowly, yes, but still an allied), an army of at least a few thousand men, maybe ten thousand? (for it to be significant enough to be mentioned in the Bible it had to be more than just a batallion). Producing equipment for an army like that (10 000 spears, swords, shields, clothes, possibly leather-armor), as well as food, could not have been done by a government that itself hadn`t even had time to consolidate its power and get the bureacracy running.

  Not to mention that the Egyptians was willing to do that, less than two years after they had been allowed to go home after having been kicked out of their homes for 40 years by the people they now decided to go into an alliance with! Tell me, if Israel now, today, had let the Palestinians that were kicked out of their homes several decades ago, come back, do you think they now would fight for Israel!

  If you had told this story to any expert on such things (mentioned above), that this was all done in less than two years, they would have laughed at you.
• 

  Jeffro

  thirdwitness and 'scholar', you don't seem to be aware of the following thread where your presence has been requested repeatedly:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/117917/1.ashx

  I eagerly await your detailed and factual rebuttal.
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  AuldSoul

  thirdwitness finally posted on the Hillah Stele thread! In his first post he went off topic by mentioning 587 BC. But it will be forgiven this time because he correctly assessed the Hillah Stele as being inacapable of proving 587 BC. Therefore, any further mention or argument about 587 BC on that thread will be completely off topic.

  He still hasn't answered the yes or no question I asked on this thread. But...perhaps he is indisposed with an excrement and could not read my large lettered question.

  AuldSoul
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  stevenyc

  And once again I ask this question.

  Please note, thirdwitness is unable to answer this question, because he knows that with his answer his entire premise dissolves.

  Meanwhile we await an answer:

  Other than the conclusions of historians based on their interpretation of the secular evidence do you have any scriptural reason whatsoever for arbitrarily deciding that the 40 year desolation never literally happened?

  All the 40s mentioned from the Bible above were literally 40 years or 40 days . I saw no symbolism. But even so you must connect the 40 year desolation of Egypt with another part of the bible to show it to be symbolic

  Before I answer this, I need to know from you if you believe that the prophecies in Ezekiel are literal. Word for word. steve