Can this question ever be answered once and for all?For the intelligent, truly honest person it has been answered numerous times. For the mind-controlled JW it never will be!
The voice of reason!1 G'day Ian!
For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE
by Swamboozled 601 Replies latest watchtower bible
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ozziepost
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hillary_step
Thirdwitness,
Why not take it a step further and say that if these prophecies are wrong then other Bible prophecies are no doubt wrong and thus the Bible is nothing but a man made book of some true prophecies but some false prophecies so it really cannot be depended on at all.
Well, that is an option open to the mature researcher, and it precludes having to resort to the 'conclusion first' methodology used by such fundamentalist groups such as the WTS to shore up its theology. This methodology makes the fatal error of beginning any research with a conclusion, then bending facts to suit that conclusion, as you clearly have done above.
Many of us have not left the WTS lightly, some of us had decades of our life invested within the WTS theology and it was only after an extensive review of the biblical 'knowledge' drummed into us from a WTS perspective that we made the decision to leave the WTS.
I am not prepared to argue any Biblical issue on the basis of biblical infallibility as this in itself would result in a fatally flawed line of argumentation from the start, as well as being intellectually dishonest.
The Bible is flawed and unreliable where historical and chronological issues are concerned, perhaps it was developed more as a explanation of spirituality rather than a book of chronology, were it often fails deliver. For example, can you remind us in what year Adam was created?
HS
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ozziepost
The Bible is flawed and unreliable where historical and chronological issues are concerned, perhaps it was developed more as a explanation of spirituality rather than a book of chronology, were it often fails deliver. For example, can you remind us in what year Adam was created?
This reminds me of one of the many things I've learned through real bible study that doesn't depend on the 'bound volumes™ ':and that is exactly what H.S. posts i.e. the Bible doesn't set out to be a chronological record. Of course unsuspecting dubs might assume it is, but why? Because that's what the Borgmeisters have
taught(indoctrinated) them. -
apocalypse
"... and since we can see clearly that Jerusalem was destroyed in 606... no ...make that 607 BCE, then we KNOW that Armageddon will come in 1975...."
I think that about sums up Watchtower. Ya think...
Seriously, it's not even worth debating the thing with this 3rd fella. The minute you pick out the errors and tell people which coconut he hid the twist under (and there's several twists, omissions ad fabrications) then he disappears for a goodly time and re-appears down the road under a new handle to start over on some fresh minds.
Really, just look at the guy's posting name and see he's a newbie. He will never be more than that. Once you start to debate in earnest, he's gone.
Before you can pick his bones clean he's off to see the wizard. See ya third. Talk to you again when you are yet another fresh newbie.
The 587 date is so firmly established that it's comical to see a fool make his con-artist attempt on the minds of readers.
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rassillon
thirdwitness Please Answer
thirdwitness, Answer me this question. Fact: The prophecy about Tyre did not get fufilled during this time period. In fact the Insight book indicates it did not until several hundred years later. WHY then do you claim that this 40 years for Egypt must be fufilled during this time period. AND no there is nothing in EZEKIEL which makes it a necessity, I have read the whole book, and all of the scriptures in context are no more specific about this prophecy than the one about TYRE. ?
Why does it have to be literal? Why did it have to happen during this period of time? Your answers would be appreciated! Alan You really have a way of putting things. A great job as always getting down to the core of the argument. As usual you can't get a straight response from a pro-witness. Instead of making real points, TW makes inferences and uses words like "silly" to belittle arguments he does not want to address head on. come on thirdwitness, debate on a level playing field. Don't run behind the false argument that "well you might as well say the whole bible is wrong and Jehovah too" when in fact it would be a case of "the person interpreting what was written would be the one wrong and just thinking too much of their own ability of knowing what GOD meant" regards, -r
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moomanchu
where's scholar?
I'm thinking that your talking to him/her.
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thirdwitness
So in summation here is the argument made by some.607 is wrong because the Bible is not reliable on chronology. Since the bible is wrong JWs are wrong.
Well, you got me there. If the Bible is not going to be accepted as accurate then JWs cannot prove or disprove any doctrines. 607, trinity, hellfire, God's name, the kingdom, Jesus as God's son and the way to salvation. We might as well discard it all.
It is asked: WHY then do you claim that this 40 years for Egypt must be fufilled during this time period. The answer is in the Bible. Ezekiel 30:10 Ezekiel 30:10 confirms that it is Nebuchadnezzar who is to remove all the people from that land. “I will also cause the crowd of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon.” So the desolation had to occur before Neb's death.
As for my credentials as a scholar? I could ramble off my credentials and what schools I have attended but so what? Does having a degree in this or that prove you are right? What credentials did first century Christians have? They were considered 'unlettered and ordinary' by the religious leaders.--Acts 4:13. I know no one wants to be like the religious leaders that Jesus condemned by resorting to their tactics. Disprove what I say and you have disproved my credentials.
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thirdwitness
Hellrider says: No, it sure doesn`t, as the Bible makes perfectly clear. According to Jeremiah 52:30, there were captives taken away from Judah even in Nebuchadnezzars 23rd year. Even if we use the Societys own calculations, with Nebuchadnezzar becoming king in 625 bc, this means that the land was not desolate for more than 65 years (602 would be Nebucahdnezzars 23rd year withing the insane WTS-"chronology", and from 602-537 there is 65 years). So you, and the WTS are of course admitting that "no inhabitant doesn`t really mean NO inhabitant".
Your info does not disprove the 40 year desolation of Egypt at all. We say that Egypt was desolated not before 602 but sometime after 590 and sometime before Neb's rule ended in 582. (Probably 588) 40 years easily fits in there before the conquest of Babylon in 539. Please read the essay.
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ellderwho
Whatsa matta Third, cat got your kings list.
See this is the problem with Jws, when truley challenged to put up or shut up the latter is always the case.
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thirdwitness
Alanf said: The problems with the website's argument are legion. I will only cover the basics in this post.
First, the website's author assumes that the 40-year desolation prophecy by Ezekiel was to have and actually did have a literal fulfillment. But the Bible contains many examples of claims and prophecies that might appear to have a literal interpretation, but which, in the light of uncontrovertible facts, can only be interpreted as symbolic in some sense. I give two examples below, the second of which completely destroys the website's claim.
Second, it ignores the demonstrable fact that the testimony of several independent ancient historical sources proves that Egypt's history was continuously documented through the entire period in question. I'll go into this in detail in a subsequent post. It really isn't necessary for the disproof of the JW defender website's claim, though.
Because the website is written by Jehovah's Witnesses who obviously feel that the JW Governing Body is "divinely directed", and therefore that Watchtower publications carry a weight of authority virtually equal to that of the Bible itself, in this series of posts I'll use such publications as an authority when I deem fit. I'll also quote scriptures from the Watchtower Society's New World Translation unless otherwise specified.
By claiming that the problems are 'legion' he tries to pretend that there are so many problems with the 40 year desolation prophecy that it is easily overturned. But notice the 'legions' of problems he presents.
Basically they are:
1. The 40 year desolation is not literal.
2. Secular history of Egypt disproves it.
3. The writers of the site believe the GB are divinely directed therefore he at least seems to insinuate that the writer must be wrong.
Do you consider those reasons to be 'legion' or even legitimate?
To summarize he says, The 40 year desolation is wrong because secular historians say it is wrong and because the WT says it is right.
I submit that 587 proponents have the 'legion' of problems and those problems are found in the Bible.