Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness 597 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • learntoswim
    learntoswim

    All the questions made here have been addressed in the jehovahs judgement site essay.

    I'm disfellowshipped, but I still believe it to be thre truth, but the reason i don't bother is cos I just like doing the things you can't do!!

    Its just I sometimes hate to see the beliefs of the JWs misrepresented like they often are here, and the society being maligned often without much reason. It seems you can believe anything you like on here, apart from what the witnesses teach! I don't think joining the UN/DPI was a particularly clever move at all, in fact i think they were silly to do it, but i'm afraid i don't impune any malice or bad motive to the governing body, they just made a stupid mistake. Cue flaming!!

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    learntoswim.."They just made a stupid MISTAKE."..Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!..The "Mistake" lasted 10 friggin years!!..WBTS did`nt leave until they were held up to public ridicule on a global scale!..A stupid mistake???..LOL!!...OUTLAW

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    learntoswim,

    Please direct me to the portion of Jehovah's Judgement Web site that address the 10-year long associate attachment to the UN/DPI, and the direct relevance of the policy in the om/od books to said joining of those disapproved by God. I would be fascinated to read what they have to say, as I can't get a straight answer from any JW regarding it. Oddly enough, I couldn't find where they address this on their Web site, which is why I am requesting your help since you claim it was addressed on their Web site.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • learntoswim
  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Sure, they probably didn't mean much harm. Never having been a JW, the whole affair at first glance seems pretty dull.

    But the simple matter is that the org was hypocritical here. And they can't own up to that simple fact because the org can do no wrong.

    It's sickening how self-absorbed the org is.

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    LearntoSwim, let me give you an analogy...lets just forget about the UN for a moment.

    Lets say a Governing Body member was asked to speak in behalf of the WTS at a New York City local planning meeting on what they were going to do with their buildings.

    Lets also say that the meeting started with a localized "Flag Salute", and then asked for a contribution to the board, but that they would let the WTS remodel the building if they did both and stayed on, but just as a minor group member.

    Lets further say that the GB guy sort of "forgot" about flag salute issue and the "not joining worldly orgs". He does both because he desperately wants to remodel this building. He gets on that board and stays for about 9 years, saluting their flag and contributing to their propaganda articles, etc..., when somebody happens onto their meeting minutes and recognizes him and the WT Society. Then he quits and says he was only there to get their brownstone remodeled.

    Does this wash at all? JWs know perfectly well not to get involved in worldly politics, salute anybodys flag, and write up propaganda for them.

    The UN was just as much a "whoredom" as the flag salute, the VFW, being a member of the City Council, etc.

    Stupid Mistake, you say??? I think not. Stupid, yes. Mistake, no - instead I call it "theocratic" expediency.

    James

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    Sorry, learntoswim. You must have misunderstood my request.

    “association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system”

    This does not address the concern as stated. As the Watchtower Society and defenders of the Society have been quick to point out, the UN/DPI is not the UN.

    The question I raised was whether association of NGOs with the DPI constitutes incorporation into the United Nations Department of Public Information's system. That question is not answered on the Web site as you claimed.

    But the fact is plain, if application for Association submitted for review to a committee is required to institute the relationship and a committee determination is required to dissolve the association, then the relationship was a joining of two organizations in a joint cause or effort. The joining did not occur to the UN, so obviously there would be no incorporation into the UN or perks and privileges relative to the UN resulting from a credentialed membership to the UN/DPI. However, there was incorporation into the UN/DPI and perks and privileges relative to the UN/DPI resulting from a credentialed membership to the UN/DPI.

    Please reread the Web page to which you linked while keeping the two organizations properly separated in your head. The UN does not equal the UN/DPI. The Watchtower Society could not join the UN. But the Watchtower Society did join the UN/DPI.

    Additionally, the comment in the om/od book is not mentioned on that page. The comment in the om/od book cites Isaiah 2:4 and Revelation 19:17-21 as the verses for consideration, and I believe you will find they do not deal with religious affiliations.

    Organized to Do Jehovah's Will (2005) p. 155, par. 2 Concerning those who renounced their Christian faith in his day, the apostle John wrote: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us.” (1 John 2:19) For example, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Isa. 2:4; Rev. 19:17-21) If a person who is a Christian chooses to join those who are disapproved by God, a brief announcement is made to the congregation, stating: “[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” Such a person is treated in the same way as a disfellowshipped person. The presiding overseer should approve this announcement. Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry (1983) p. 151, par. 1 Concerning those who renounced their Christian faith in his day, the apostle John wrote: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us.” (1 John 2:19) Also, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization the objective of which is contrary to the Bible and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Compare Revelation 19:17-21; Isaiah 2:4) So if a person who is a Christian chooses to join those who are disapproved by God, it would be fitting for the congregation to acknowledge by a brief announcement that he has disassociated himself and is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Such a person would be viewed in the same way as a disfellowshipped person.
    Isaiah 2:4
    And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.
    Revelation 19:17-21
    I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, that YOU may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.” And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage the war with the one seated on the horse and with his army. And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur. But the rest were killed off with the long sword of the one seated on the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth. And all the birds were filled from the fleshy parts of them.

    Isaiah 2:4 is the basis on which the Watchtower Society identified the UN as the chief tool of Satan in competition with God's Kingdom. The UN is supposedly Satan's attempt to fulfill what God has promised to do. Receiving the mark of the wild beast has been identified by the Watchtower Society as any act that even acquiesces to the the UN. Their OWN interpretation and usage of these Scriptures plainly demonstrates that association to the UN/DPI constituted a voluntary disassociation from the Christian faith.

    And the Web site you linked does not address this point. For a very compelling reason: They have no response. I would love to read yours, however.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • learntoswim
    learntoswim

    sorry auldsould you're right the essay doesn't specifcaly address the OM reference.

    i'm well aware as you are of the difference between joining the UN and joining the UNDPI. either way, the spirit of the OM ref was to say, do not become a part of an organisation under judgement by God, as this would make us also under judgement by God due to our becoming actively associated with it. would you agree thats what the book was saying? but when the WT decided to register the WTBTS corp with the dept, they may well have just been doing so because they thought like this:

    we need access to the research materials, and we were told that to do that our legal body needs to register with the relevant dept, so thats what we'll do.

    they may not have viewed it as becoming part of an organisation under judgement by god, rather merely registering with a dept to get a library card.

    conversely of course, they might have been thinking, lets secretly become part of the UNDPI to further our corporate agenda, which i gather is what a large percentage of people on this board believe, but without any evidence whatsoever. and no, i have no evidence whatsoever for my belief that it was an honest mistake. its all conjecture. what we can't do is use this whole UN debacle as proof that its not "the truth".

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    It is proof that they are not sincere. If they were sincere (and right in their purpose for joining whatever they did) they would have said so publicly and stuck to their guns. WTS had plenty of chances to make the distinctions you are debating now.

    What they did was resign from it and begin denials.

    Maybe we should be debating that instead of all the legalisms of UN departments.

    James

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    learntoswim,..The WatchTower Bible and Tract Society have no excuse,for haveing anything to do with the United Nations..NONE!!..Nor would they except an excuse for the same conduct,from anyone in thier religion..There is no Excuse!!..By thier own definition,not mine,not someone else`s,the WatchTower Bible and Tract Society is a WHORE..Now they have to live with it...OUTLAW

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