The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible
by thirdwitness 1380 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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toreador
How intellectually dishonest can you be?
Have you bothered to ask yourself the same question thirdwitness?
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Hellrider
Thirdwitnoid:
AlanF: Jesus did not give any "signs" of his parousia that included earthquakes, famine, pestilence, war, or any other catastrophes
alrighty then. Lets rip Matthew 24 and Revelation 6 out of our Bible and replace it with AlanF 24: 3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things have nothing to do with the sign of my presence.
AlanF 6: 2 And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was already on his head given him in 33CE, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest.
3 And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: “Come!” 4 And another did not come forth, not even a fiery-colored horse; and there was granted not to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and not even a great sword was given him.
5 And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say: “Come!” And I saw, and, look! not a black horse; and the one not seated upon it did not have a pair of scales in his hand.
7 And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say: “Come!” 8 And I saw, and, look! not a pale horse; no one named Death. And no authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.
LoL. Alrighty then, lets rip out Matthew and Revelation and pretty much everything else, and replace them with Thirdwitness and the jehovahs Witlesses:
24: 3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” The Lord saith: "Well, you`re gonna have to dig reeeal hard, find the-day-dor-a-year-rule from Moses 40 days in the desert, which I admit, have absolutely nothing to do with neither me nor Daniel or Jeremiah, and then count one year for each day of old Nebuchadnezzars days in the wilderness. Yup, that`s pretty much it. Some crazy old farts in a continent that won`t be discovered for another 1500 years are probably gonna figure it out".
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things will be the sign of my presence, and even though the statistics will show that earthquakes are no more deadly after 1914, and the average lifespan of most people in the world will be at least doubled since my days, and people will prosper and live long, healthy lives, just read the headlines of the newspapers, get real paranoid and neurotic and make-believe the endtimes started in that magical year of 1914.
6:2 And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was \given to him 1914 years after his birth, although he saith explicitly in the Gospels that all the power of the heavens and the earth had been given to him allready when He was here with us, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest.
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What a stupid religion you have, Witnoid...
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Leolaia
I've been travelling and have been unable to read much of anything yet of this monster thread, but since the word parousia is being discussed and the WT's concept of an invisible presence, I should not that there is no implication of invisibility by the word and that it is regularly used in koine writings to indicate both states (e.g. "being present") and semantic changes of state (e.g. "becoming present," i.e. "come, arrive"). The Society focuses only on stative uses of the word and ignores non-stative uses, including a usage in Hellenistic texts pertaining to official visits, as well as the paralleled use of the usual word for "come" (erkhomai) in the eschatological discourse in Matthew 24 (cf. v. 30, 39, 42, 44, 46, 48) which relates to the manner of the parousia referenced in v. 3.
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thirdwitness
How intellectually dishonest can you be?
Have you bothered to ask yourself the same question thirdwitness?
What do you mean? I have put forth one belief and it harmonizes with all the Bible. I have repeatedly shown this over and over again. I am not trying to just say anything that will disprove one certain group regardless of how many times I contradict myself. The only point AlanF is trying to make is JWs are wrong but he offers no accurate interpretation because he could care less whether what anyone says contradicts what he has been saying or not, just so they don't support JWs belief. If someone comes up with some reasoning claiming that Christ began to rule in 70CE he will jump on the band wagon despite the fact that he has been preaching that Christ received 'all authority in 33CE. He has just shown that to be a fact in his statement above. Just so it contradicts JWs. He is intellectually dishonest to the max.
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AlanF
Yep, thirdwitness, you've really lost it. Your posts are getting more bizzare all the time.
: AlanF: 2) John's words in Revelation 1:1, 3 here clearly indicate that he wrote the Revelation just a few years before 70 A.D., in which case his words about the above events being near make sense, being applicable to the soon-to-be-realized destruction of Jerusalem.
: Oh ok, so then you believe that God's kingdom begin to rule sometime after 33CE
That's what the Bible says. My belief or unbelief in what the Bible says is irrelevant.
: since Revelation includes the prophecy of Satan being thrown out of heaven and God's kingdom taking power at Rev 11 and 12.
Once again you're attributing to me something I've never said nor implied. The stuff in Matthew, etc., showing that Jesus received all authority and so forth, stands on its own. You -- not me -- connect Revelation to these things. I have no need to try to explain why your fantastical speculations are wrong.
: I thought that you said that Christ began to rule in 33CE after going to heaven and sitting at the right hand of God
I've argued that that is what the Bible teaches, yes. You're confusing your beliefs with my statements. Try reading with comprehension.
: but wait Paul said in about 61CE at Heb 10:13 that Christ was still waiting for his enemies to be placed as a stool so that can't be true or was it in 33CE when he was still on earth that he began to rule when he said he had been given 'all authority' .. All does mean all, right?
As you've been told again and again and again, receipt of all authority does not mean that that authority is exercised all at once.
: You sure do contradict yourself alot with your fake Bible interpretations that you don't even believe.
Actually it's only your transparent straw men that are confusing.
: You are willing to put forth and support any interpretation except the correct one. Any that disagree with JWs is ok even if they contradict each other and yourself.
Look at those straw men! How large they are!
: How intellectually dishonest can you be?
Actually, the fact that you are unable to deal with your opponents' arguments except by creating straw men proves who is intellectually dishonest. I've pointed out in post after post exactly what your straw men are. Because you repeatedly drag up those same refuted straw men, it is obvious who is intellectually dishonest.
AlanF
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toreador
I loved that parody Hellrider!
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thirdwitness
So, AlanF , when did Jesus become king of God's heavenly Messianic Kingdom? When did Jehovah begin ruling through Jesus as king of God's kingdom? Was it 33CE? If so, Was it before he went to heaven or after? Was it after John wrote Revelation? When did Jesus get the crown? Was it 33CE when he was given all authority on earth? Or was it after he was given all authority on earth then he went up to heaven and came on a cloud and appeared before Jehovah as told in Daniel 7:13,14 and received rulership and power? Or was it after Revelation was written when in the future he would receive a crown as Rev 6 shows? Or was it as recorded in Rev 11 and 12 which were prophesying events that would take place after 33CE when the 'kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ'? Or was it before Revelation 11 where it said that Jehovah has taken His great power and begun ruling as king? Was it before his enemies were placed as a stool for his feet or after? Did he become king of God's kingdom before 61CE while still waiting for his enemies to be placed as a stool or not? In other words, was he already king of God's kingdom in 33CE still waiting for his enemies to be placed as a stool for his feet in 61CE as Paul said. Your beliefs are very confusing and contradictory.
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AlanF
Before I deal with any more of your nonsense, thirdwitness, you must answer a pile of my previous posts. It's evident that in your desperation you're just spewing out as much BS as you can to see what sticks, and to muddy the waters of discussion, and to avoid dealing with those posts, among those of many other posters. But we're teflon on this forum.
AlanF
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toreador
thirdwitness wrote:
So, AlanF , when did Jesus become king of God's heavenly Messianic Kingdom? When did Jehovah begin ruling through Jesus as king of God's kingdom? Was it 33CE? If so, Was it before he went to heaven or after? Was it after John wrote Revelation? When did Jesus get the crown? Was it 33CE when he was given all authority on earth? Or was it after he was given all authority on earth then he went up to heaven and came on a cloud and appeared before Jehovah as told in Daniel 7:13,14 and received rulership and power? Or was it after Revelation was written when in the future he would receive a crown as Rev 6 shows? Or was it as recorded in Rev 11 and 12 which were prophesying events that would take place after 33CE when the 'kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ'? Or was it before Revelation 11 where it said that Jehovah has taken His great power and begun ruling as king? Was it before his enemies were placed as a stool for his feet or after? Did he become king of God's kingdom before 61CE while still waiting for his enemies to be placed as a stool or not? In other words, was he already king of God's kingdom in 33CE still waiting for his enemies to be placed as a stool for his feet in 61CE as Paul said. Your beliefs are very confusing and contradictory.
I'll say your beliefs are confusing Thirdwitness!! And I suppose the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has always had all those answers. BTW, how did you like Hellriders analogy of your beliefs? Tor