by Wordly Andre 32 Replies latest jw experiences
I did a quick check using my copy of Nestle Aland Novum Testamentum Gaece and many (Probably all) of the same verses are omitted.
This is a Greek only edition of the most recent Nestle-Aland critical text. (Not a translation, not an interlinear.) and is considered the most accurate Greek text we have available today by all modern Bible scholars.
So I would venture that this is not a legitimate criticism of the NWT.
rather than show the NWT false, you are just showing your ignorance of modern bible scholarship and your obvious trinitarian bias
I seriously doubt that if you took two people and had one read the NWT and the other one read an NIV translation......you'd get two different concepts of what the gist of the bible is about. Would the one that read the NWT be stumbled beyond hope with a distorted message of the bible? I seriously doubt it.
Gumby
Dreamer, is your post directed at what I wrote? because if so the middle part of my post is copied from a page I saw online.
As several have pointed out, those lists of so-called "missing verses/phrases" betray either their authors' ignorance of modern textual criticism or deliberate dishonesty. Only a handful of KJV-only sectarians would seriously maintain that those phrases/sentences have been "removed from the Bible" -- as this implies equating "the Bible" with the KJV and the 16th-century textus receptus on which its NT is based. Because, they think in substance, the Reformers' Bible couldn't be wrong. Which boils down to transferring infallibility from the Pope to early Protestant scholarship, and means that all later scholarship and findings (especially of a lot of manuscripts older than those available to Erasmus) are to be discarded.
As to AlanF's remarks on John 8:58, I agree that the NWT rendering correctly suits the context at the simple narrative level. However, the absolute use of egô eimi in the Fourth Gospel is widely acknowledged as a double entendre pointing, not directly to Exodus 3, but to Yhwh's recurring absolute statement 'ani hu' = egô eimi in Deutero-Isaiah (41:4; 43:10f etc.). In the NWT this distinct overtone, which cannot be heard without an intertextually consistent translation, is lost both within the Fourth Gospel (cf. especially 8:24,28; 12:26; 13:13,19; 18:5-8) and with Deutero-Isaiah.
As to the French part :
For example, a French speaker
might want to say:"I went there ten years ago."
He would say:
"Je suis alle la il y a dix ans."
Literally:
"I am gone there it there has ten years."
The word for "am" is "suis" and is in the present tense. But by standard
usage, the past tense is almost always rendered by two constructions that
are something like "I am gone" or "I have gone" in English.
Actually in French grammar this is considered a past tense (passé composé) of the verb aller (to go), the verbs avoir or être (to have or to be) having only an auxiliary function (as in the English present perfect).
Another example (fwiw) is the use of the present in French
Je suis ici depuis deux ans
when the English would use the "present perfect"
I have been here for two years.
For example, a French speaker
might want to say:"I went there ten years ago."
He would say:
"Je suis alle la il y a dix ans."
Literally:
"I am gone there it there has ten years."
Well hell.....no wonder the french didn't write the dang bible, they can't even talk right and they confuse ya.
*Calls Alan to come and stick up for himself*
Alan! ....hey Alan!! Narkster said you was full of poop!
Gumsqueeler
Missing BOOKS???
These are MISSING VERSES!!!!
When I saw the title of this thread I was expecting something really juicy; instead this is a rehash of really old hash.
We wuz robbed!!!!
Mustang
The verses worldly Andre mentioned are not in the Nestle Aland new testament so there are legitimate reasons thwey are missing from the NWT. However Atlantis mentined a lot of great points where the NWT has messed with the original scripture. I 'd like to add two:
NIVLuke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
NWT Luke 23:43 And he said to him"Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise"
With a comma placement they manage to postpone paradise by a few thousand years- even though there are no commas in the original manuscripts!!!
NIV John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
NWT John 3:16For god loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten son in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destryed but have everlasting life.
Turning simple faith to a complicated religious experience. How do I get saved? Well first you begin with a bible study and if we deem you worthy you could go door to door............
Also
The Greek phrase for "I am" is ego eimi. Here eimi is in the
present tense. However, in Greek, as in many languages such as French, a
present tense is often used as a past tense. For example, a French speaker
might want to say:"I went there ten years ago."
He would say:
"Je suis alle la il y a dix ans."
Literally:
"I am gone there it there has ten years."
The word for "am" is "suis" and is in the present tense. But by standard
usage, the past tense is almost always rendered by two constructions that
are something like "I am gone" or "I have gone" in English
I do not know french however in the greek you cannot translate a present tense as a past tense.It is a clear quotation of the septuagint who had god say " i am" at the burning bush. Why would they try to stone him instead of dismissing him as a lunatic?
57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" 58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
I do not know french however in the greek you cannot translate a present tense as a past tense.
Applying the present tense to past time is a legitimate, albeit idiomatic means of expressing the present perfective in Greek. It is not unheard of in the NT.
How for example should, legei autw o ihsouV tosouton cronon meq umen eimi .... be translated if not with an expression (e.g. "have been") of past time?
It is a clear quotation of the septuagint who had god say " i am" at the burning bush. Why would they try to stone him instead of dismissing him as a lunatic?
The belief that egw eimi of John 8:58 refers to Exodus 3:14 was once widely held, but scholarly consensus has shifted considerably since A.T. Robertson's day. There are still some that still hold to this view, but they are pretty much in the minority today. In the phrase, ... legwn egw eimi o wn the predicate is o wn, not egw eimi. The link falls apart at the grammatical level at least.
Narkissos has already pointed out however that above the level of pure grammar, egw eimi is acknowledged as a double entendre pointing to Yhwh's recurring declaration; 'ani hu'
John. 7:53- 8:11 (all 12 verses) -- They separated the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text and place it at the bottom of the page in a appendix (of sorts)with this detracting statement: "Manuscripts NBSYS omit verses 53 to chapter 8, verse 11, which read ( with some variations in the various Greek texts and versions) as follows:"
Can anyone give me a clue why this part of John's Gospel was removed???
I remember asking once an elder and he said something to the effect that according to Mosaic law even Jesus was suppose to condemn this woman but he said "neither do I condemn you" which would suggest that he too was a sinful man.
Does anyone know true story behind it??? It bothered me for quite some time to get record straight on that one.
