by Seeker4 356 Replies latest jw friends
I heard the "less than 2000" estimate as well...about 10 years ago!
Now that I think about it, the conversation I mentioned was several years ago. The problem with getting older is that what seems like just a few years, upon reflection, turns out to be 10!
I'm sure you're right that the number today ought to be in the few hundreds. Of course, this assumes that these numbers -- to say nothing of the teaching itself -- were ever accurate in the first place.
The debates with ThirdWitness also helped me to see the folly of the Societys stance on things
I Trolls.
Help!! I mistakenly started a topic I meant for this area on Scandals and Coverups. Can anyone fix it?
Ok Thanks Big Tex for your encouraging words :)
Doubting Bro It is good to hear from another in the same boat as me....Good Luck ( Can I say that LOL)
This weekend I feel that I am in a real quandry.
I will just keep reading others experiences.....and see what happens....
JWFreak
Love this thread and all the facinating twist and turns it has taken. Persons in the org that believe change can take place are hoping in vain. People are contiually being beat down and over burdened by the doctrine of men that the society keeps putting on the R&F. Sadly I believe that the only ones that will be left in the org are the ones it despises the most. I believe the ones deemed 'week' in the truth will be the ones who pick up the torture stake of the F&DS. I see a lot of my friends still in trying to haul the slavish yoke of the society. When you try to question or point out mis-deeds of the org, they respond with the conditioning that has been programed into them.
I have seen bro's recently appointed to elder simply for being still in the congo. Several have told me that they never thought they would (or should) be appointed. I feel sorry for these guys because they have no idea of what they are getting into. One was telling me that his 1st case involved a child abuse. Another had a case for fornication and when he tried to show empathy for the person (whom he felt was truly sorry) another brother on the JC called him to the carpet and 'explained' how things really work in a JC.
Such experiences can only work out 2 ways. Either a bro gets confused and dismayed at the reality of the situation, or the bro will bow to the way things are done and join forces with other.
WOW this is a great thread! A warm welcome to the lurking elders who courageously decided to finally join ! Your prescence here is so very helpful to those currently active JW's who are noticing something is not right with the organization but are too afraid to speak out. Thank you OldSoul, AlanF and all the others who have contributed.
IC
i just want to thank everyone here for their posts. i know that it takes time and dedication to analyze and debate and refute and explain all the issues. i left wts in the 70's. daughter of a prominent person of responsibility who had a crisis of conscience when he saw flaws in one of the "flip-flops" and could not find anyone to discuss it honestly with him, only small minds who threatened dfing. at the concurrent time i was pioneering and married a bethelite, essentially a "company man". talk about cognitive dissonance. when i left i shelved everything, thinking i was just too stupid to figure things out. spent decades in limbo. when i came in contact with this site i was finally able to deprogram myself with the help of so many posters like those on this thread and including some here. i will print this out for family members who are physically severed, but i believe, still emotionally tied to wts as fds and still wait for correction. again my deepest gratitude to all. thanks especially to the elders who have been so honest. keep it coming. nowisee
With close to 5000 hits at this point, and so many really interesting twists and turns in this thread, it has gone a bit further than I had originally intended. Thanks everyone!
Grey Matters wrote:
" I have come to the conclusion that this organization works best for those who can selectively ignore counsel and quietly (very quietly) hope that doctrine and procedures will change. I just couldn't do that."
It was the same with me. I think that a huge number of the best elders, men who really cared for the flock, have either stepped down or left all-together. This reminded me of something that happened to me probably 15 to 20 years ago. I was at a district convention, working in the chairman's office and I had a couple of talks.
I met a brother there, and we hit it off. He was an elder from another circuit, and I never saw him again. But the last time we talked, he handed me a letter he'd written me. It was very complimentary, but the gist of it was that, in his experience, brothers who were talented and really gave of themselves tended to be used up, drained dry and tossed aside. His note was a warning not to let that happen to me. And, of course, it did happen to me. Most of the best elders I knew are either no longer serving, or out of the Witnesses completely.
I'm reminded of this when I talk with my ex-wife, still an active JW, and I inquire about someone in the congregation or circuit. There are a couple of really good, talented guys serving, but I'm always surprised how disparagingly she talks about many of the brothers. She's a pretty good judge of character, and a really good person, and there are some brothers that she just can't stand. There are several elders and MS who are pretty much worthless.
To stay, as the still active elders who have contributed to this thread have made clear, takes a toll from good men, and most eventually find they cannot pay the price in the end. That is not going to get any easier as the WTS becomes more and more exposed. Even these elders speak of plotting how they can leave and take their families with them.
Having active elders in responsible positions who no longer believe that the WTS has "The Truth" keeps the Society extremely vulnerable. These are the men posting on-line all the confidential information that we now have available. I had a thread a while ago that addressed this access to information as one of the most important weapons against the WTS. I'll be truthful - right now, as an apostate who has not attended a meeting in probably 7 years, I have better, quicker and more accurate access to confidential and non-confidential WTS information, than I ever did as an active elder! I can get on-line and read any letter to the body of elders from the last several decades. Active elders can't do that right now!
Things are not going to get any easier for the WTS. They have adapted slowly and poorly to the threat of the Internet, and are paying the price for it. Telling the Witnesses not to look on the Net will work only with a few. Those few will be the ones who remain Witnesses until death, an aging and likely increasingly bitter group that will slowly die out, still wondering why the New System hasn't come, but certain that it will. Anytime now.
S4
I apologize for the "pity story" I posted last night. I felt I had to get it off my chest, but in reading over it now, it seems silly. I hope I can more encouraging from now on.
becca1, I don't usually read long post from beginning to end. I did read yours from beginning to end. It was a very heartfelt post. I could understand your pain and suffering. Don't apologize for writing it, you don't know who else you could be helping. This is a sounding board. You can post and reflect, and start the healing process. If people didn't post, there would be no JWD.
Welcome to the board.
AlanF, for me, cognitive dissonance is the only answer that I can come up with. I'm so disappointed in myself that I fell so hard for "the truth" and I'm even more disappointed that I've been avoiding having to face it. Although, somewhat in my defense, I was raised in so we're talking about a lifetime of exposure. Still, I go and tell others to take an honest look at their religion, yet have refused to do so myself. I just hope I haven't hurt anyone along the way in my capacity as an elder by either what I said or what I should have said but didn't.
Doubting Bro, don't be too hard on yourself. We've all been where you are (well most of us). You can't quit an addiction until you realize that you have one. You've come to the realization that this IS bad. Now, stop selling that crack, crank, meth, heroin, (insert whatever) etc... to others. It's time to start healing. Stop bending your mind and don't bend anyone elses.
Recovery can be a hard road to take.
