zarco, as long as you don't give out personal info here, I doubt any JWs will identify you. We have several active JW posters who keep us informed about events in the WT world.
I started posting here as an active JW; now inactive.
Blondie
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 356 Replies latest jw friends
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willyloman
Zarco said something really important that got lost in the shuffle:
...there really isn't a blood issue anymore. ... in practice this issue is dieing a quick death.
That's absolutely true and more accurate now than just a few years ago. If dubs understand the latest WTS pronouncements on fractions and other medical management procedures, the blood issue is history. In other words, there is no issue. Dubs can take blood without sanction, providing they pay lip service to the Society's guidelines.
The problem is, not one dub in 1,000 knows what the hell the WTS' current position is on blood. The vast majority, when facing surgery and after the new rules are explained to them by their friendly, local HLC member, will gladly go along with the more liberal allowances. But a lot of dubs still think "you can't take blood, period" and that's the hill they are willing to die on.
However, the fact that the blood issue has been allowed to die a quiet death with no attending publicity does not exonerate the WTS from bloodguilt. They knew this was quackery but they defended it while at the same time feverishly working behind the scenes to create one exception after another until the original policy was unrecognizable.
Zarco is undergoing a crisis of conscience here, in part because he is forced to support or at least explain away doctrines and teachings he knows are unconscionable.
But many of us have been there, done that. Cut the guy some slack. There are not many people on this forum who aren't guilty of promulgating false teachings and false hopes during their dub years. Those without sin may feel free to cast the first stone.
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restrangled
As an outsider looking in I felt really bad about Zarco leaving. Both my husband and I have been glued to this topic from beginning to end and discussing all.
Neither of us felt qualified to add to this post, but enjoyed the benefits of the wisdom and up to date thinking etc.
To Zarco, you were really appreciated and please know that your input probably had more influence here than at any KH as all were actually listening.
Thank you to all, this was a wonderful read.
Zacro, please stay on.
r.
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becca1
zarco: if you are still reading this, don't leave. I am still "in" and could be df'd for posting here as well. But, where else can I go ? To whom can I vent my frustration? And if I don't let of some steam here, how long can I stay in and not make a mistake? Your posting here helps you and the rest of us. Consider it a tool to help you hang in there. Your insights are helping us, please don't leave.
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Seeker4
Zarco,
I hope you're still reading here, and I thank you for all you added to this post. I think many have tried to make you take steps in a few days that it took some of us months or even years to take. Your courage in even posting here at all is a good thing. Take your journey as you need to.
There are some points I totally agree with on the issues discussed here, and I've written about them. One recent post by Willyloman noted: "The problem is, not one dub in 1,000 knows what the hell the WTS' current position is on blood." That's been true since I was an elder, and is true now more than ever.
That point was important in my leaving. Why did so many Witnesses know so little about the most important life and death issue the organization has? It may also be so for you. Give it some thought.
If you'd like to talk, PM me by clicking on my name.
Please stay and keep talking with us, even if it takes you a few days to digest all of this.
S4
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uninformed
I think your posting has helped show some of the humanity that is struggling inside the elder suits that walk in many congregations. That is something very good to see.
ZARCO
Bebu wrote the above. I really agree with her.
It is a horrible struggle to get free of the WT and it takes a long time.
This DB is a school of its own. Some of us get wrapped up in an argument and don't think about saying or doing the kind and considerate thing. We have all been on both sides of the table on this one. I tried to quit a couple of times, but you just have to lick your wounds and get back in there.
Most of the time, when someone gets rude in their post, and like I said, all of us have done it, the rest of the posters get madder at the rude one than the one taking a beating.
Give it some thought.
Brant
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AuldSoul
willyloman: But a lot of dubs still think "you can't take blood, period" and that's the hill they are willing to die on.
They are only willing to die on it because it is the hill they were indoctrinated with. They were taught they would lose salvation if they took blood. Quietly changing the policy does nothing to correct the fallacious and intense indoctrination that went before. Therefore, until that is corrected, there really is a blood issue.
The blood issue is yet another instance of failure to candidly and publicly admit specific error. Fear of litigation cannot be a consideration that validates deceit. Yet, in that organization, it is used as such routinely. The Governing Body are disgusting in their cowardice, deceit and hubris.
I hope zarco doesn't really leave. I think he would be good for this place and vice versa.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
willyloman
Seeker4 said:
That point was important in my leaving. Why did so many Witnesses know so little about the most important life and death issue the organization has?
Exactly!. Here's one thing that pushed me out the door:
The annual pass-out-the-blood-cards talk was scheduled. The elder assigned was the least qualified guy on the entire body in terms of speaking and teaching ability, a fellow with no discernible intelligence who never displayed the slightest interest in doing any research before he got up and gave a "talk."
For reasons I won't go into here, a couple of the elders were extremely well versed on the WTS' current blood policy teachings, but neither was asked by the PO (an idiot, but that's another story) to deliver the part on the meeting. .
The talk is supposed to cover the blood policy in some detail. Guy gets up and speaks and essentially says, "We don't take blood under any circumstances and never will; it's a fundamental part of our religion." He then quotes from several WT publications, not one of which is newer than the early 1980s!
He completely mislead his listeners as to the recent and more liberal JW positions on the medical use of blood and based the entire presentation on his personal opinion, which was apparently formed in 1972 and had not changed.
Afterwards, I asked the PO if he planned to discuss this with him. The PO, for those who don't know, assigns all the parts on the service meeting and is responsible for counseling speakers who don't do a good job. He looked at me with a blank stare and said, "Why? I thought he did okay."
What do they call that, a light bulb moment? That's what I had. As seeker put it: The most important life and death issue the organization has, and the guys in charge of teaching this stuff thought -- no, they knew -- it didn't matter whether they got it right or wrong.
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Big Tex
Howdy zarco.
You strike me as a man who can make up his own mind. It's difficult at first, thinking for oneself, and then responding to others from that mental platform. Give it time. You've got a lot to offer, and I suspect deep in your heart you already have your answers. It's just implementing them that will be the deal.
But in the meantime, there's no rush. Hang around and read some.
Be well,
Chris
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OUTLAW
Zarco..Reread,Seeker4 and BigTex posts..This place is a lot to digest..Don`t let anyone hurry or push you..Grow at your own pace ..Post again when your comfortable..I know it can be a bit tough,but you have to develope a thick skin..It will help make you a better debater and poster...OUTLAW