Some incredible new publisher statistics and Graphs

by jwfacts 66 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  LittleToe

  SBF:AuldSoul had it right when drawing to your attention that I was refering to the 2002-2006 period.

  I left the JWs January 6th 2002, and later that Summer I was invited to speak at the SU I refered to. Four years later I was asked to speak again and the attendance was a poor week at over 80. Meanwhile I had kept an interest in how they were doing, and had those figures reported to me. They regularly get over 100 in attendance.

  You're correct in stating that the church has been in general decline, but the last four years has seen a resurgance that your figures don't reflect given that, while they are the most up to date comprehensive study, they only reflect up to 2002. I recall seeing those figures towards the end of 2002 when attending a multi-denominational Evangelical conference in Stirling, where I got to discuss such concerns with some of the hundreds of Ministers in attendance. It was a real issue, and stirred them to action. It appears that action is bearing fruit, whereas selling dusty magazines doesn't inspire the just-around-the-corner movements.

  Are you disgruntled to find that Christianity is enjoying a different providence to JWs in Scotland? You certainly came across as though someone had peed in your chips...
• 

  slimboyfat

  You cannot use data collected prior to the period he referenced as a viable challenge to his statement of personal observation.

  Of course you can, if the data shows a convincing trend. And in modern British society there are few trends less well documented and consistently reliable as secularization.

  In the absense of more recent reliable data in fact it would be imprudent to reply on anything else, especially to rely on a single anecdote over a mountain of data demonstrating a contrary historical trend.

  Except in your crazy world where we say, "to hell with the historical trend of the past half-century and all the data collected, we have LittleToe's word for it that everthing changed in the last couple of years."

  I am losing the will to live here...

  Slim
• 

  LittleToe

  I am losing the will to live here...

  So are we. Your position is intractable and you appear unwilling to consider any evidence that doesn't support your preconceived ideas.
• 

  Dansk

  Slim:

  I am losing the will to live here...

  I genuinely hope your comment is not connected to your illness!

  Ian
• 

  slimboyfat

  Little Toe,

  I am willing to consider any evidence you offer. Of course I am. But where is it? I fear that your "evidence", such as it is, is simply what you have already provided. One local experience. If you have anything substantial then why are you hiding it? I am genuinely interested. But the "evidence" you have cited so far has not been equal to the claim you made.

  You stated:

  Kids are becoming Christians all over Scotland, too, mainly from un-churched homes.

  The only evidence so far has been:

  The numbers attending a local Scriptural Union, in one Secondary school on this wee island, has grown from 24 to 100+ in the last four years.

  I certainly have no reason to distrust your local experience, but surely you can undertand that this is really no evidence at all for what is happening in Scotland as a whole.

  So where is the evidence?

  You have gone even further in your most recent post in stating that the trends from 2002 have been reversed. So where is the evidence for that?

  I have cited the most recent comprehensive source of data we have on religious activity in Scotland. You have cited nothing but one local experience. So who is not looking at the evidence? Do you see why this is a bit frustrating?

  My personal feeling, though it has no bearing on the evidence I have presented for secularization in Scotland, is that it is quite an exciting prospect to live in a society where the churches (including Jehovah's Witnesses) will exert an ever smaller influence.

  Slim
• 

  slimboyfat

  Thanks Ian.

  My ulcerative colitis is not life threatening apart from extreme cases and a possible long term risk of cancer, it is just painful and a bit miserable at the moment.

  "Losing the will to live" was just a rhetorical flourish.

  Slim
• 

  Dansk

  My personal feeling, though it has no bearing on the evidence I have presented for secularization in Scotland, is that it is quite an exciting prospect to live in a society where the churches (including Jehovah's Witnesses) will exert an ever smaller influence.

  I wholeheartedly agree and include Islam and Judaism!

  Ian
• 

  free2beme

  Nice information, what is your source?
• 

  LittleToe

  SBF:I understand your frustrations. I offered just one piece of local evidence because I could verify it and because this is merely one thread on a webboard, not a thesis on the subject.

  Your own experience is likely to be significantly limited as you have not had any church contact during the very years that I report on, nor were you aware of the 2002 report at the start of that period.

  I never used the word trend. It may well be that the current reversal is just a blip, but nonetheless it's an interesting one.

  Why are you using such inflammatory language as to suggest that I'm "hiding" evidence? You betray your emotional attachment to the subject, ole chap, which makes for rather unscientific analysis.
• 

  AuldSoul

  Slim, a larger question is still before us.

  I am sure you agree that trends can turn on a dime, that certain events can spark renewed interest or renewed activism in generating interest in that which demonstrated a trendnig toward waning interest. You'd have to be oblivious to the last 50 years of fashion trends to believe otherwise.

  However, the fact remains the Britain is hardly a barometer for the world, and even less so would be certain segments of Britain. LittleToe restrained his comment renewed religious interest to the scope of religion with which he is familiar personally, namely Scotland. He is not just speaking anecdotally of what he has witnessed, but is relating the general anecdotal reports he has heard from others in a position to know, as well. He made no general statements regarding Britain.

  Anecdote of the sort LittleToe offered would be akin to anecdote from a member of Parliament reefrencing a recent upsurge in the number of young people who are activated in the political process. It is still "just" anecdote, but does not lack any authority due to that fact since a member of Parliament would be in a position to know the more recent general trends.

  I believe it is very shortsighted of you to insist that we must wait for a statistician to confirm what LittleToe stated he has observed and has heard reports of others in similar positions observing.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul