Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"? (page 24)

Mondo1

DD,

My statement was in regard to Jesus' existence in heaven. Jesus did not exist in heaven as flesh.

The Bible never articulates the mind as something that lives on after death. In fact, it teaches exactly the opposite of that. As for the spirit body that he had, likely it in itself changed so that it was no longer what it was, but it became wholly flesh. That is speculative though, for again, the Bible doesn't say.

Mondo1

Kenneson,

I would mostly agree with you. The word did not simply "take flesh" though, John 1:14 says the word "became flesh." So yes, the Word did change, because the Word became something that it was not.

LittleToe

Mondo:
It seems to me that you are learning what you believe as you argue it out, and are slowly but surely learning how to articulate it. That's good. Far better than just making it up as you go along.

To Satanus: No substance came down. He "became flesh."

v

To Kenneston: The word did not simply "take flesh" though, John 1:14 says the word "became flesh." So yes, the Word did change, because the Word became something that it was not

It seems your opinion has evolved just slightly, in that you are now presenting the idea that 100% of the substance of the Word "came down", but was somehow converted from flesh to spirit. It's ok to adapt your presentation as your thoughts develop, so this isn't a criticism. I guess that my earlier question remains, though. Given the foregoing, what did he actuially give up or empty himself of?

Mondo1

It is the same thought, just a further articulation of it. When I say no substance came down, I mean that, for in heaven Jesus existed as spirit. When he came down to earth, he "became flesh" and so that substance of spirit that he existed in was somehow not a part of him anymore. How it was not a part of him I couldn't say for sure. Maybe it was just gone, maybe it changed to something else. Whatever happen, that spirit was no longer there. He was now flesh.

Mondo1

And to answer your question... "the form of God," naturally.

LittleToe

But, but, but, earlier you said he was spirit and became flesh, while disagreeing that it was merely a vehicle...

Further, how can you "empty" yourself of a "form"? It's what you're made of, not something you take out of yourself.

Do you want to have a wee think about it, and come back with something consistent?

ellderwho

When he came down to earth, he "became flesh" and so that substance of spirit that he existed in was somehow not a part of him anymore. How it was not a part of him I couldn't say for sure. Maybe it was just gone, maybe it changed to something else.

Well this is a start. I see glimmers of honesty here. Now, the fact that "it" was gone somehow, is realizing there was something that had to go away.

As the rabbit hole continues, one has yet another burning question. Is it reasonable to say "it" was out of existence?

EW

LittleToe

I wouldn't even suggest that Mondo is being in any sense dishonest. He's grappling with a subject that has had the best mind in knots for millenia. If there's any dishonesty evident it's the same kind that we all impose on ourselves when trying to maintain sanity while learning and adjusting our views.

As long as it remains personable, I'm of the opinion that we're all beneficiaries in this kind of discussion, as we look at subjects from a variety of angles and get to refine the presentation of our views. The more we refine and define our views, the more we sort the wheat from the chaff, and lets be quite candid here, I doubt there's one of us who doesn't have a little chaff...

In the words of the sage: It's all good!

ellderwho

I wouldn't even suggest that Mondo is being in any sense dishonest.

Not with this forum, with himself.

I doubt there's one of us who doesn't have a little chaff...

Im king of all chaff!

Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?

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