Reflections

by Frenchy 92 Replies latest jw friends

TR

Good Topic, Frenchy.
Can't add much thus far, just some thoughts. IMO, demanding religions like the WTS define what a cult is. The leaders of the WTS, for whatever reason, have decided they have the truth. Since they think they are God's chosen, they somehow believe that they have the power to demand strict allegiance to their cause. I'm still not sure if the GB REALLY thinks they are chosen or not. Maybe it's just a career to some, and a traditional way of life to others. Nevertheless, they have a corporation to maintain worth billions. Support of the r&f is paramount to this org.
Being deceived and having the proof of such is the main reason for my anger toward the WTS. I didn't even leave because of what they teach. I left because I was stressed to the limit. It was only after my period of research that I started to get angry. Much expectation was heaped on my shoulders by the WTS and the local cong. Having an "unbelieving" mate and three small kids made it difficult to maintain a balance in my life as a JW. Should I give more attention to the "kingdom interests", or to my family? Too much attention to the cong. brought suffering to my wife and kids. Too much attention to the wife and kids brought chastisement from the cong. I simply couldn't hack it any more. I didn't want to give up my duties and just sit at the hall, knowing how others would think of me. So I walked away.
Fortunately for me, most of my family were never JW's. I had an instant support system, and no one was angry at me. They accepted me after I left the cong., and didn't judge me. I truly feel for other JW's who didn't have a built in support system. That's another reason that angers me about the WTS. Vulnerable people that were tossed out without any support. How can a religion expect a person to accept the punishment when the person doesn't believe in the reasons he/she was expelled for? If a person is having doubts, maybe they can ease out, and start creating a life outside the WTS to make an easier transition. Many different scenarios to consider.
Tom
AhHah

Dear Red,
I was emotionally overcome as I read your story. I feel so much empathy for what you have been through. How many years have you been out of the Borg?
I really don't think that most of the world has any idea how much the JW org steals the very lives of their members and then discards them like yesterday's trash if they dare to complain or come to their senses. What a mockery of Christianity and spirituality! They truly are a dysfunctional cult.
RedhorseWoman

Thank you, AhHah. I have been totally inactive for about 16 years. I honestly feel that I have been "free" for less than 2. Finding other ex-JW's on the Internet who had experienced what I had and who felt as I did was a very heartening experience. Initially, I would read people's posts on discussion boards and cry....the pain was so deep.
I saw so much hurt and despair while in the BOrg, and every time one of those hurt sheep turned to the shepherds for help, they were told (as was I) to adjust their attitudes...to not look at people....people are imperfect and we just have to learn to live with it. These wrongs were not trivial. One of my friends married an elder's son. I had bad feelings about this young man, but he had such WONDERFUL credentials in the congregation. He turned out to be a wife beater. Once he became so angry that he tried to run down his wife with a car while she was pregnant. He then went on to sexually abuse his daughter. He had the right connections, however. No action was taken against him. However, my friend has been considered spiritually weak and bad association ever since she divorced him. Yes, unfortunately, she is still in. She feels she has nowhere else to go.
This organization crushes lives and mutilates souls.
notsureofmyself

I know alot of what Red went thru, we were in the same congregation for a large part of our lives. We knew each other and hung out with pretty much the same groups but we didn't really become friends until much later. This was because one of our worthy pioneer "sisters" played us against each other. I thought she hated me and she thought that I hated her. We did figure out what was happening until much later, after we were married and away from this person. From that time on Red and I became close friends and it continues until this day.
Red, I know felt she had no worth--she was made to feel that way as was I. But one thing I would like others to know, when I was leaving the BORG she was my main or only support system. She kept me from returning when I begin to get scared. She was there for me whenever I needed her. She left quite a bit before me, so I couldn't do the same for her, but I always stayed in touch with her and I am glad that I did. The visits were always a little strained at first because I was still "active". I remember noticing that she was reading books by Stephen King and I was shocked--I was still the good little Witness.
I guess what I want to say here is: I just want you all to know what a good and caring person is and she has so much to give to this board. If you were aware of the hell she has been thru, you would know how amazing it is that she is still the good person she is.
AhHah

Dear NotSure (but I believe you are more sure than you know),
Thank you for that touching post. You have beautifully demonstrated how this forum can be a genuine spiritual outreach and fellowship. I grieve for so many genuine, honest-hearted persons who are taken advantage of and denied happy, fulfilling lives. Hopefully, posts such as yours will encourage and empower some of them.
AhHah

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Edited by - AhHah on 5 November 2000 2:58:49
Martini

Hi Frenchy and friends,
You said:
Whatever can be said about the WTS one will have to admit that it is unlike anything else he has experienced. Do they have ‘the truth’ and have just mismanaged it? Why were the promises so real to us? Why do some of us still long for those things once hoped for? Is there someone else out there that has the truth? Will there ever be?
Comments?
I believe each one has valid reasons for their anger, disappointment or frustration, how ever you want to call in as much as each ones circumstances are similar and shared by hundreds if not thousands of others in much the same way.
Frenchy your questions above indicate to me that many of us who are at the edge have these perplexing, nagging after thoughts. I suppose that our WTS experience is truly more complex than we ever bargained for.I maintain that only with the passing of time, where the obvious cannot be denied (FDS fraud and errors) , will this religion go mainstream and finally release everyone from it's influence.
I agree with you though that in the meantime I too scratch my head at times and wonder what is making the other 99.99% of my close associates continue in "the truth" despite the growing evidence that there are BIG problems within this Organization. They will say something like "oh, just take the positive and leave the negative".
The problem I have is that they appear quite contented. Most are not your model "WT drone" as they once were, but they hold firmly to the belief that they are serving Jehovah and that their love for him is what they cherish most in life. Basically they feel this Organization keeps them focused on their dedication to live not for self but for GOD. Many could find fault with this position, all I know is these people do appear to be doing something for God, I honestly cannot say so much for myself anymore.
Got to go, but I'll be back,
Martini.
Pathofthorns

I enjoyed your comments there martini. There is much truth to them, and I am perplexed at the same things.
As for whether an "appearance that they are doing something for God" is better than what appears to be "nothing", that would be an interesting topic for another thread.
Path
Frenchy

WOW! I was wonderfully surprised at the number and especially the quality of responses on this particular thread. I warmly encourage all who have not as yet given us their reaction to this to please do so. This is one of those rare threads where no one is right or wrong and there are no arguments here, only heart felt expressions of one’s experiences. We are so alike that it is frightening on the one hand and on the other hand, we should expect that we would have these similarities given our involvement in the WTS movement.
Please, those of you who have hesitated for whatever reason, post your views and comments on this thread. I thank all of you who already have and please don't hesitate to 'add' to your comments.
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
MDS

Hi Frenchy:
Please, those of you who have hesitated for whatever reason, post your views and comments on this thread..."
Okay...I'll do just that.
Whatever can be said about the WTS one will have to admit that it is unlike anything else he has experienced. Do they have ‘the truth’ and have just MISMANAGED IT?
Why were the promises so real to us? Why do some of us still long for those things once hoped for? Is there someone else out there that has the truth? Will there ever be? .... comments?...
Many times I've observed many comments, and things that you have stated, that you really, really, want the truth. I am beginning to believe this too.
I usually, will not post to particular individuals...except on rare occasions...
...but for some reason, your name keeps popping up... it seems you are still out there searching, talking about prayers, I remember, one time, I remember, "Why does God NOT answer our prayers," and so on.
Now, you are giving the "organization" another look, so to speak, you want to know, just what happened up there, what did those people have up at the kingdom hall, that was so hard to walk away from, you wonder.
Well, Frenchy, in all of your searching, which we know to be a arduous journey in itself, for everyone who really, wants the Truth, the real truth of anything,
Well... just maybe, just maybe, perhaps, you have stumbled on something greater than even you have imagined...the "real" truth of the matter about the WTS and Jehovah's Witnesses. The "Real Truth" of Life itself!!!
The "Real Truth" that the whole world wants to know, and will come to know, in God's due time... the "Real Truth," about our Creator, and what He is going to do, about the "situation" you mentioned above.
You see, only those who truly "grope" for God, will find Him. We are at INITIAL STAGE of the most magnificient developments that are surely destined to happen before mankind, ever...
...these things we call the "sacred secrets" of God. His "secret" matters, His "confidential matters." (Amos 3:7)
You have said above...
"...Maybe they [WTS/JWs] have MISMANAGED the Truth...and that's why it is sooooo hard to walk away from those people..."
In other words, they really, did have "SOMETHING," that's something, but not ALL OF THE TRUTH, not the whole story, not the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of God, not all of that, but they did have SOMETHING!
Like Paul said, the Jews of Jesus' day, like the Pharisees (and Sadducees/nation of Israel) as mentioned at Romans 2:20, only had, the "framework of the knowledge of the truth," that's the "framework," [or form, outline, outerstructure] of the Knowledge of the truth"... that's all they had... the "framework" / outline, of the "knowledge of the truth."
And as we know, the "framework" of anything, say, the "framework" of a house going up for construction, IS NOT, and I repeat, IS NOT THE COMPLETED STRUCTURE. They did not ALL of the "Truth," all of the facts to COMPLETE the struture, the spiritual temple, that God wanted to be built. The Messiah, would have the finishing plans, but would the Pharisees, humbly, wait, admit that they did not have ALL OF THE ANSWERS...but the messiah would, but his "answers" were NOT ACCEPTABLE TO THEM...they rejected his "completion" instructions, in the end. He was not what they wanted.
But, as you have said above, you are exactly right... they had "some" truth, but they "mismanaged" it. Just like the Pharisees, and religious leaders of Jesus' day, had "some" truth, but again, "mismanaged it," as you say. You are exactly Right!
They have only a "framework", or sketchy "outline" of truth,in their possession, before Jesus came. They tried to complete the spiritual structure of God, BEFORE the messiah came. They established their own "form of righteousness," apart from God and His much needed additional instructions. The "wineskins" had been stretched to the limit, by their own doing... The leaders "ran ahead of Jehovah." Just like the WTS/GB has done today. -- See Roman 10:2, 3.
So French, God has already blessed you, with the above insights...You have arrived at this conclusion, the correct conclusion, possibly because you have sought to "find God," you have been willing to "grope" for Him. Yes, as He says, all must, before they can indeed, "FIND GOD." -- Acts 17:27
But, as you have done, One must "grope" for Him, as Acts 17:27 clearly says:
"For them to seek God, if they might GROPE for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us."
The word, "grope" is unique. It is only used when we think of COMPLETE DARKNESS.
We are in "darkness" .... "complete darkness", where there is NO LIGHT...NO LIGHT at all... we are stumbling into the back room of our house, we reach for the light switch, now where is it, we must "grope" for it, stumble all thru out the dark room, to find another lamp that works, knocking over books, bumping into the tv/radio, making a whole lot of noise, banging our big toe, against the edge of the bed, man that hurts!..but we are "groping" for something, a light.
Groping For God...we "grope" when we are totally helpless, totally in darkness, spiritually speaking... and we finally recognize this fact, we sense it, we know it...we "grope" for God, when man has completely failed us...like the WTS, the organization, we man cannot help us any more, in a sense, we must find God know, the real truth now.
We recognize that we are in total darkness...today, spiritually speaking... That's why you are asking these, very hard hitting, pertinent questions, religion, God, prayer and so on.... yes where is God?
You are "groping" for God, you are sincerely, and earnestly delving into the type of thoughts, and periods of meditation that really, makes for a RETHINKING, a double-take, of the whole matter. You are making sure, so you rethink, about the organization we have come to know as claiming to worship God uniquely, the one that claims it uniquely to recognize His Name, just and ancient Israel did. They claim to be a "People For His Name." But, they clearly do not measure up. You know this to be a fact...and you are right! Just like the nation of Israel during Jesus' day. They didn't measure up, when Jesus came to inspect... The Pharisees and religious leaders had the nation, worshiping them, instead! Man made doctrines, traditions, and all. -- See Matt. 15: 8,9.
Matthew 15:12,
astonishingly, shows the disciples of Jesus COUNSELING him, yes instructing the "master" teacher, Jesus himself that what he is saying, his harsh denounciations against the Pharisees and religious leaders of their day, is actually "stumbling the Pharisees," yes, "stumbling" them, the ones who were the ROOT CAUSE of all of the suffering and injustices, the nation had endured, all up until that time!
Imagine that!
... the disciples still, defending the Pharisees, even when they were with Jesus. To the disciples of Jesus, the Pharisees , looked royal, righteous, worthy of much respect, much like the JWs look upon the GB/WTS, headquarters staff. But they are really, DISGUSTING to God, just as the Pharisees were. Jehovah holds the same view of the wicked WTS who has a strangle hold on the stupified brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses. -- See Luke 16:14, 15.
So thus, they were completely repulsive to Jesus, but completely ACCEPTABLE to the "sheep" that were "skinned and thrown about," yes, the disciples of Jesus, who continued to warn Jesus about speaking against the religious leaders, who had provided soooo much for the nation, spiritually.
We remember such statements, as
"...Oh, look at the stones, what sort of stones, on the temple structure... -- See Mark 13:1.
In gist, Jesus,... have you ever seen anything like this?...isn't this just wonderful!
What is going on here, even at the very end of Jesus' ministry...they struggled with this "situation," of facing up to the Pharisees, the real truth, the sure aftermath, that Jesus spoke of, that was sure to come? Their "ignorance," could not stop the Will of God, in this matter..."no stone shall be left upon a stone..." God's Will. -- Matt. 24:2
Back to today, Frenchy,...
Isn't it true, sometimes, when we really hear the "truth," of the matter, it becomes something that we DO NOT WANT TO HEAR...isn't that true. Now, I don't doubt your sincerity in wanting to really, really, know God's thoughts on the WTS and Jehovah's Witnesses, at all... I see that you are even "groping" for it...
But, do you really want the truth...
Kind of like Jack Nicholson's words in that famous movie... "You Can't Handle the Truth..." ... Can you, Frenchy? ... The Real "Truth." It not like ANYTHING YOU HAVE EVER HEARD BEFORE!!!
I promise you that!
You see, in a matter of 5 minutes, of less...yes, someone can tell you the "real truth" ... quickly, concisely, it could be presented to you ...someone could give you the entire picture...
Remember, Jehovah God is consistent... He provided for His people in the past, and ... He is still God, no less powerful than before... the same Jehovah...and He will provide once again...
In fact, He is ALREADY PROVIDING, answering the questions you have posed, and many, many other questions, that you have not even thought of yet.
The truth, is really available for God's People Today who are really "groping" for it. Those that really, really, want to know.
But remember, when you hear it... it may not be what you WANT TO HEAR... it may be repulsive to you... you may want to puke, and reject the "message" of truth... it may sound very, FOREIGN to your ears...
But the answers are there, right there in the Bible, ALL OF THE ANSWERS too.
Martini makes the following observation of modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses who are still "loyal" to the organization...
"...The problem I have is that they appear quite contented. Most are not your model "WT drone" as they once were, but they hold firmly to the belief that they are serving Jehovah and that their love for him is what they cherish most in life. Basically they feel this Organization keeps them focused on their dedication to live not for self but for GOD. Many could find fault with this position, all I know is these people do appear to be doing something for God, I honestly cannot say so much for myself anymore."
This statement is very accurate.
But, we must say, this then, reveals a very, serious problem with the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, and also, how they must endure a very serious ENCOUNTER with the Creator, the Most High. They have "learned" now, how to accept outright wickedness, from the hands of the WTS. They have "accepted" it. They have "learned" how to "live with it." The same way the disciples had "learned" to just, accept it.
Frenchy, I will just say this, from God's prospective, if we thought the "Golden Calf" incident displayed anything about the character of God Almighty, and His great disdain, distaste, for idolatry, ... then, let's just say, Jehovah is going to do something, completely UNHEARD of before, so much so, it literally, will make the "ears tingle." -- See 1 Samuel 3:11; 2 Kings 21:12; Jer. 19:3
The "ears tingle" just to hear it, to come to know what Jehovah God is going to do about this "situation" you are perplexed with. He does plan to handle it, like never before. He will clearly demonstrate to all, just what it means to be ALMIGHTY, ALL-KNOWING, with no one to check His Hand. (And I don't mean total destruction of the human population either...I'm not saying that either...that wouldn't be "tingling" to the ears, but frightening, terrifying.).
No, but, I'm speaking of a great "miracle." .... A GREAT, GREAT, GREAT Miracle, a "never-done-before-miracle" ... a One time experience that will never be repeated....something that every body on the face of this earth will see too... :-)
The Hand of Jehovah, finally.
Yes, Jehovah God is going to get EVERYONE's attention, with this great, stupendous "act." This "act" will hold much meaning for yourself, and all peoples worldwide, after it has been accomplished, and people are able to "digest" just what has happened, God's "Act". This singular "act" of God. Earthwide unity will come from this earthwide "Act" of God.
What is this "Great Act" of God?
Well.... believe it or not, it has to do with "Palm Trees", and how they are dispicted thru out the scriptures...thru out the Bible itself... from the Tabernacle of Booths celebrations, instituted under the Mosiac Law, right down to the crowds of people laying down "Palm branches" on the roadway, as he made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem, then right on down to the Great Crowd, "waving palm branches" and saying, "salvation we owe to God..." ... yes, "Palm Branches, "Palm Trees," even. There is something, truly wonderful in this continual mention of "Palm trees," within the scriptures.
Why of course, they were too, displayed prominently within the Sanctuary of God, ... thru out the Sanctuary/temple, it was specifically designed to have many, many "Palm Trees," embroidered thru out the whole temple, on the walls of even the MOST HOLY, ... as well as the holy compartment,...but even in the Most Holy...where Jehovah's Holy Presence resided....there, "Cherubs" and "Palm Trees" were displayed there...very prominently....
Why????????
Well, let just say for now, and only, only, if you want to hear MORE... I'll continue... but still, yes, these "Palm Trees," even within the Most Holy Compartment, SIGNIFY something, Great, Great, Great, that Jehovah God is going to do, to swing the entire's population toward Himself, and toward True Worship.
A stupendous act!
"Palm Trees..."
But, can you handle the truth...Frenchy.
Do you really, want Jehovah God, to GIVE YOU THE REAL TRUTH, Frenchy?
Or, will you spit it out, revile it... because deep down, there is something about what is said, that you just can't stand... something about it, that makes you want to vomit... in disgust...
Just as you know, many on this board, hate my words and my very presence on this board... they hate it!
They know who they are... they "hate" the words, of which, I'm about to speak... they "hate" real truth... But the Bible says Jesus "was HATED WITHOUT CAUSE"... that's hated without real "cause." They "hated" the WORDS OF TRUTH spoken from the mouth of Jesus. -- John 15:25
You may have this same aversion, too... we may find this out...like many, an "aversion" to hearing the "REAL TRUTH,"...
Can you handle it?
And of course, yes, it "free," as "life's waters should be," ... "free," ... won't cost you anything to at least, HEAR IT...
Jehovah has made it possible for this special information, the "truth," to be heard, yes, absolutely "free" of charge. I'd be happy to share it with you... if you want to hear it.
But, I wonder... Can you HANDLE THE TRUTH, the REAL TRUTH, like Jack said in that movie.
I trust that you will be able to do so. Because you have "groped" for it, as God said you would need to, before one "finds God." -- Acts 17:27
MDS
Edited by - MDS on 5 November 2000 13:57:19

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