Minimus said:
"But AS, think about it! Does this CORPORATION act like THEY believe?? THEY are the ones running the Organization. They are the lawyers and accountants that care about the bottom line. And yes, I do feel that this Corp. cares DEEPLY about $$$$."
As I see it, the money issue is only one area where the corporate nature of the WT is evident.
In PUBLICLY held companies, the board can be held to account by the shareholders; the WT is in reality a privately held, for profit company, charter notwithstanding.
The problem with them is there is no apparent or direct accountability to the shareholders, and a medieval method of ascending through the ranks.
The WT is suffering from classic ivory tower thinking, decisions and policy making. There are no vocal shareholders to hold their feet to the fire; the rank and file will just accept most of what they say. They do have the bleed off of members that regain their independent thinking. One ascends to leadership in New York by agreeing completely with everyone on the way up, insuring that leadership always supports prior leadership.
Personally, I think they will mainstream in exactly the same fashion they always have; the Orwellian way.
No longer are vaccinations and transplants forbidden; the blood policy is a corrupt joke. The method of chaning is the same as it has always been; we never FORBID blood, the members made their OWN choice.
We didn't preach 1975; the MEMBERS did. SOME chose to refuse alternative military service; that was their CHOICE. We all know the drill.
They will slowly change all of the anti-social doctrines, blame the fellowship for overreaching, and keep the membership, albeit at a lower rate of growth or even slight losses.
My 2 cents.
JW Reform, It will NEVER happen...
by AuldSoul 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Pistoff
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parakeet
JWs may change a bit but never substantially reform. They have to hang on to their strange 'out-there' doctrines because that's what makes them different from mainstream Christianity. That's their hook to draw in the right kind of convert (i.e. emotionally damaged). Without their book-selling, crazy blood policy, holiday-ban, military service-ban, shunning policy, etc., who would they be? Their identity as JWs is inextricably linked with their doctrine.
That's why the WTS is stuck in a dilemma of their own making. If they don't reform, their followers will eventually get tired of the endless rules while waiting for an Armageddon that never comes.
And if the WTS does reform their restrictive policies (and assuming they don't get their butts sued off), they'll lose their unique identity and slowly fade away to join the long list of other defunct religious movements of the twentieth century. -
Borgia
English having a name to uphold on the cooking thing (with a blink a refer to President Chirac remarks; no pun intended), have made several television series of high ranking chefs, like Gordon Ramsey, who visit degraded restearants, as you Sunspot indicated, in order to change things for the best. I believe it is called hell´s kitchen.
As you may have gathered, turning a restaurant into a viable place agian is a hell of a job ...but....can be done.
When you look at some of the places shown being in such a deplorable state, why on earth would anyone want that joint to go on?
I am not waiting on any reform whatsoever. Since I have an agnostic inclination I do not care whether or not they reform. It does not make their religious system more true. However, some people just hve the basic thrust of being in a social surrounding that gives direction and purpose to live (como mi reina). I see a shift from "End time"- hardliner to "we are still gods people having a good life" - stuff.
Others may simply state that the basic doctrines about God, Jesus, the ransom, eternal life, hell, you know, are biblical, thus making it to them the truth. They do not serve God with a date in their mind....
So, who turns out the light and closes the door?
The WT has in past issues described other religious groups for their stance on trinitarian doctrine, neutrality, hope on the millenium, or whatever suits their business. These groups often eventually disappeared in the mimst of time or over time became part of a lager denomination and lost their initial viability. Ofcourse this theme is played out against the background of the timme not being at hand to re- establish true worship.
The difference between those groups and the WBTS is that the WBTS is legally deeply entrenched inside the US and more or less in other parts of the world. And I do not see that changing over night for now. They will probably use that as a sign of Gods blessings on their efforts. .....
Cheers
Borgia
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Terry
This whole process can be explained:
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blondie
So did you see The Prestige, Terry?
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AuldSoul
Parakeet,
That is the Catch-22 I was after. Spot on.
"Reform" is change for the better. This organization changes, a lot, but not for the better. I mentioned their shift to disassociation as a preferred way of getting rid of undesirables as a reform for two reasons: (1) from their perspective it is for the better, and (2) from my perspective it is for the better. From their perspective it will free them of legal liability, from my perspective it will hasten the organizational demise.
Will the organization change? You bet. A lot. Its history shows that it will change in ways that create additional internal pressure. I once saw a building demolished and the implosion changed that building considerably. I wouldn't call the changes "reforms", but the effects are similar to what I anticipate the organization will experience.
There were fragments of the original building after the building was demolished. I would not call the fragments a building, however, nor would I suggest that the building survived through the existence of the fragments. In much the same way, there may be fragments of the religion left but I wouldn't call the fragments a religion.
Much has been made over the blood issue, but the policy allowing fractions has been in place for some time, now. The changes were just poorly communicated to the masses. I am having trouble thinking of any major doctrinal changes since the 1995 change in understanding on the meaning of the word "generation." Maybe I just missed them, if there were some. I think the GB is currently reinforcing the concept of End Times and the pressing urgency needed which will serve as primary vehicle of the organization's undoing.
Shortly, I think JWs will be faced (in their door-to-door ministry) with a public much better prepared to raise the right questions. They have already been facing Bible students who have no fear of information available on ex-JW Web sites. The organization's history haunts them as was never before possible. After all, who in 1920 could have predicted that in the year 2006 a 20-year-old kid could reproduce a Watchtower article from 1879 on the printer at the Public Library and ask his Presiding Overseer father questions about what it said?
They are stuck. They can't move. Every choice they could make is a bad one. Even if flexibility and social acceptability is a goal of the Governing Body, they are paralyzed.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
jgnat
Reform from within? Only if a "Gorbachev" rises to the top and tanks the organization. I think any elder-alliances or reform-minded JW associations are doomed for failure.
Reform from without? Very possible. The weight of public pressure through lawsuits, etc. can have an effect. One has to be careful, though. I think the legislative restrictions in France and Russia just fuel the JW persecution mindset. On the other hand, the UN provides a lot of reasons for NGO's to associate. There's opportunity for the NGO to speak to the world forum for religious freedoms, loosening borders, and so on. Bulgaria, too, forced the WTS to soften their stand on blood.
So a good ambassador or negotiator CAN convince the WTBTS to reform their more extreme policies. Quietly, of course, without a full-page spread in the Watchtower. The WTBTS can't be seen to be associating with "worldlies".
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heathen
I thought they did reform when Rutherford took over , they did away with the "babylonian" beliefs and became the WTBTS (jehovahs witnesses) . They do allow for doctrinal changes so who needs to reform again? They can just pull up some new light and they're covered under their dogma . I agree that this is a religion that is more interested in developing real estate than preaching the good news to the poor and down trodden. I don't get how they can condemn wealth but love to spend money the way they do .
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proplog2
If they give up the "end is soon" idea they have no reason to exist. Although, originally Adventists they have branched far from the Seventh Day Adventists.
They could become a publishing house for several different groups so that their investement wouldn't be a loss. Hell, they could just specialize in printing for all denominations.
They could hold Bible parties where people would buy inspirational videos, Bibles, and study guides. The service meeting could become a good old fashioned sales meeting.
All representatives would have to be be strong moral leaders so that people would trust them as distributors of fine Christian publications. They would carry a complete line of games and educational packets that would encourage building strong character along with family values.
Readers digest..... move over.
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The Dragon
First I would have to ask how they could "reform"...are you emplying they might get a clue and come up with a real answer rather than many guesses they try to pass off as secret information from God only they are allowed to hear first. I am of the "guess" they are not guests in God's mind as they claim.
second....is this question a guess into the future? If so it needs to be presented as such. I wish I could see into the future...then I would never make a mistake or bad decision again. It is hard to judge what anyone is going to do in the future..judge correctly anyway.
I am not sure if this is a guess or not.....what do you think? Am I "wrong"?