JESUS CAN NOT BE JEHOVAH GOD IN THE FLESH (page 3)

Sad emo

I understand that part fish, but why would a god of love treat people as he did? Kids killed by a she bear for making fun of his prophet, stoning a woman if she didn't yell during a rape, forbidding Moses from entering the promised land cause he messed up once. Etcetera, etc.

Big question juni!! I really don't have all the answers. There are some things that I've thought about in the past though:

1. The Elisha + bears incident, did God send the bears? It was Elisha who did the cursing - was it God who replied with the bears or did they just happen to appear anyway? It doesn't actually say that God sent the bears.

2. Moses messed up twice - He was a murderer/manslaughterer as well as the incident with the water. I suspect that it was because he killed someone that he wasn't allowed into the Promised Land - the penalty under law (w/o grace) was death, to be excluded from the nation (put outside the camp) was virtually death for an Israelite.

3. As regards unfair laws such as the one you mention, there's one thing Jesus said which has made me think often. It was when he was being asked about divorce and he replied something like 'it was because you were stubborn that Moses permitted divorce' So how many of the other laws were not from God but written in either by Moses or later scribes? (I know I'm leaving myself wide open with this comment LOL!! Please refer to my first answer - I don't have all the answers!).

So it comes down to purity w/o grace in dealing w/his people? Smacks of WT treatment.

Law w/o grace - exactly! That's why the WT have got it sooooo wrong. They have the option of being able to know grace but have rejected it.

Clam

Good subject. It always semed to me that heaven seemed to bring out the worse in people. Jehovah, well he's a bit tetchy to say the least; Satan and the Demons, this was where they went bad. Jesus always seemed like a really nice guy on earth, but back in heaven seems to be preparing to kick ass.

Narkissos

The Markan Jesus is often irrationally angry... according to some manuscripts his reaction to the leper in chapter 1 is irritation rather than mercy (a lectio difficilior which might well be original); and think of the fig tree in chapter 11.

But the "Father" of the softer versions of Jesus (especially in John) seems to have little to do with the OT God indeed.

Qcmbr

If you took a description of me from someone on this forum and say my wife I'm sure you wouldn't be able to match me up either.

The OT was written by a culture in constant chaos and upheaval (assuming that there is any historical accuracy) and this may have had some part to play in their description of God (ascribing things to God whether or not they were God's 'fault' - for example the she bear episode may well have been a legend that got written into scripture rather than an actual occurence - God gets kudos 1000's years ago but just looks sadistic to our culture now.)

We have a change of emphasis in the NT when Jesus has come and has taught face to face to large groups of disciples and is able to answer questions as they arise - thus He explains himself.

Other points of issue - Jesus / Jehovah could not fully understand the human condition unless He himself had been a human - thus we see Jesus come to earth to also take part in mortality and to learn like the rest of us - a bit at a time. Thus Jehovah as Jesus gains a greater affinity and understanding - He changes.

Jesus / Jehovah has to play many roles - as Jehovah He is not playing the role of personal Saviour but as national leader which engenders a certain remoteness and perceived harshness. As Jesus He was a personal Saviour applying mercy on an individual basis - those who then recorded this then painted another picture of Jehovah.

Going back to my point at the very beginning - my wife's description of me will be much closer to the truth as it will be balanced with a better understanding of me while someone describing me from the limits of this forum would describe me depending on how I responded to posts they took part in or read - a much more limited view. Of course as we are all aware its very easy to traduce someones character from a few lines of text!! I think Jehovah in the OT gets a bum rap. He should have got a better spin doctor!

Apostate Kate

2 Kings 2:23 And he went up <`alah> from thence unto Bethel <Beyth-'El>: and as he was going up <`alah> by the way <derek>, there came forth <yatsa'> little <qatan> children <na`ar> out of the city <`iyr>, and mocked <qalac> him, and said <'amar> unto him, Go up <`alah>, thou bald head <qereach>; go up <`alah>, thou bald head <qereach>.

the word "little" actually is the Greek word qatan which does not mean little in size but in number. There were a few of them.

"ren" translated "children" actually means someone as old as a young man, such as a gang. If you translate this into todays language it would look more like this; these dangerous young men were gang bangers and were intent on killing the prophet of God.

I don't have a problem with this since death is not the end. These gang bangers recieved justice in their earthly life, and in the afterlife, wherever they ended up.

BCZAR2ME

When believing they are separate it is easier to accept that the Father has the right to destroy his creation.

bczar

Sad emo

These gang bangers

totally off topic - I imagine that means something completely different in the UK to what you thought lol!!

LittleToe

Emo:
This came up a few months ago with LDH. Apparently it's got something to do with street gangs, not rape

juni

Thank you for your input and research Kate on those words. Makes me feel better. I never heard of this before.

Thanks to all of you. It certainly gives me things to think about. A lot of interesting points you all have made!

Juni

Sunspot

This is the one area that I admittedly know very little about, as things seem to contradict each other. I detect a definite difference in the Father "Jehovah" of the Old Testament, and the Son "Jesus" of the New Testament. To me, or from what I read.....their personalities are worlds apart and their treatment and dealings with people are vastly different.

Even with all the scriptures that seem to prove that they are distinctly different persons, there are just as many that seem to say the opposite. I just have trouble with letting go and now believing they are one and the same.

This bothered me for quite some time after leaving the WTS and coming into learning about Christianity, but now I have chosen to stop worrying about this and hope that it will be resolved when I just "let it be". I have come to appreciate that I will find my answers in due time, and I never know just when that will be. I have also come to appreciate that I don't HAVE to have "all the answers" as when I was a JW, and I must be content with that.

Annie

JESUS CAN NOT BE JEHOVAH GOD IN THE FLESH

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