Just What Is The WT Up To Now?

by lovelylil 68 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • b00mslang
    b00mslang

    One thing I miss, say what you will, is the seeming (read that "simulated") dignity and bearing of Knorr and Franz. This current crop appears to be infused with a certain measure of "yahooism". Do even one of them sport an above average I.Q.?

    Well, if this is indeed "The Truth" then the scripture is fulfilled; " But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong " (although I'm not certain about "shamed", perhaps just baffled).

    Some of the words issuing forth from the mouths of these men do constitute "foolish things".

    I'm baffled as to how a corporate entity, at this level, can allow its officers to run off at the mouth, unscripted. If I didn't know better, I'd say they were attempting to see just how far into the weeds they can go, while keeping adherents.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Loesch is dignified. The rest of the GB are downhill from there.

    I'm baffled as to how a corporate entity, at this level, can allow its officers to run off at the mouth, unscripted.

    This is a special corporation because the leaders are supposed to be the mouthpiece of God. Even if some of the upper echelon brothers have their doubts, or simply have reservations about letting the GB rant about their personal issues, there's not much they can do about it.

  • b00mslang
    b00mslang

    However, their rantings do not mimic "inspired expressions" as recorded in the OT and NT.

    They have the ring of personal opinion, rather than inspired utterance.

    I perceive Loesch as subdued and foreign. It is also apparent that we Americans are easily gulled by EU accents.

  • b00mslang
    b00mslang

    To be more specific, regarding my allusion to corporate decorum, I would expect them to police themselves, and each other, lest they appear foolish. Don't they have press-agents or aide-de-camp that prevent them from committing a faux pas?

    I would also like to see some specific, scriptural, proof of their claims of Divine Authority.

    Moses had a staff that budded ripe almonds, he could toss it on the ground and it would turn into a serpent. He struck a rock and water issued forth (Waters of Strife), parted the Red Sea, Ten Plagues, Manna, Bronze Serpent, etc. etc. etc.

    What provenance/bonafides does the GB have legitimate claim to, exactly? Failed promises? Spurious teachings? If they have substantive proof, what/where is it? It is my opinion that their entire claims originate from the Watchtower. Since they publish it, this is a sort of " circulus in probando ". That is; "A is true because B is true/B is true because A is true". This has been asserted by many writers here, on numerous occasions. To wit, The Watchtower declares the legitimacy of the Governing Body and The Watchtower derives its authority from the Governing Body.

    Please understand, I want to believe, give me a reason.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    However, their rantings do not mimic "inspired expressions" as recorded in the OT and NT. They have the ring of personal opinion, rather than inspired utterance.

    I think Paul's letters often come across as something very personal and opinionated rather than inspired, and once or twice he even says that he's giving his personal opinion. He goes on a rant about his annoyance at women speaking up at meetings. At one point he brags about how many trials he's gone through as an apostle, to try to exert his authority over the congregation he's writing.

    Since Paul was part of the first GB in the eyes of the Society, one could say that they're only following the example he set for them.

    I perceive Loesch as subdued and foreign. It is also apparent that we Americans are easily gulled by EU accents.

    It's not really clear to me that Knorr was a dignified speaker. I'm not sure I've heard him speak, but people mostly seemed to just find him staid and boring. I've heard Franz speak, and he sounded like a kooky Bible nerd. So I'm not sure how you define "dignified".

    To be more specific, regarding my allusion to corporate decorum, I would expect them to police themselves, and each other, lest they appear foolish. Don't they have press-agents or aide-de-camp that prevent them from committing a faux pas?

    I would imagine they try to police each other, but they have no authority over each other (unless the entire group were to side against one or two members). If you've ever been stuck working on an assignment with an idiot for a partner, you know the hell of wishing you could do something about somebody but being powerless to change anything.

    As far as personal assistants who can give them advice, you're forgetting that these guys were COs and DOs before they were on the GB. You try giving a CO counsel on one of his talks and see how that goes for you. I can't imagine someone saying to them, "Okay, now, Brother Morris, let me read over this script before you deliver it."

    This shouldn't be surprising. Rather recently we had a Texan yahoo for a president. All the king's men and all the king's horses could not stop him from sounding stupid and folksy. And you can be sure that presidents have a coterie of image management people working on them constantly. There's some evidence that Bush did in fact learn to speak much better as the years went on, but as a presidential candidate he was a linguistic train wreck. Despite the fact that he had people writing his speeches, he often refused to stick to the script, preferring to extemporize. And Bush was probably on much less of a power trip than the average GB member.

    I would also like to see some specific, scriptural, proof of their claims of Divine Authority.

    I'm not aware of any specific basis for someone becoming part of the GB; it's not like there's criteria to be met, like when someone is sainted by the Catholic Church. The assumption on the part of JWs is that, after years of faithful service, the GB consider the qualifications of their helpers, and using prayer they are guided by the holy spirit to make the right decision.

    Of course the GB do not have any miraculous evidence of their authority or approval by God, but they point to the accomplishments of the org. and the "spiritual paradise" of Witnesses as evidence that they have God's blessing. Remember that the NT says that gifts of healing, etc. would cease in the future, so expecting them to bring forth water from rocks is contrary to the Bible.

  • b00mslang
    b00mslang

    While I agree that some of Paul's writings come off as his personal opinion, we are left with the notion that the NT is "inspired" (albeit a bit of a misogynist).

    President Bush didn't receive a Divine coronation and it is my opinion that he performed some of his gaffes, intentionally, to appear folksy (artifice). Consider his debate with Ann Richards, ten years earlier:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvknGT8W5jA

    Additionally, I was drawing a comparision between the obvious Divine backing of Moses, versus the self-proclaimed provenance of the GB. Although I agree that the miraculous gifts would be; "done away with", I would at least expect their (GB) interpretations of scripture to be accurate (or somewhat accurate). Unless we're to assume that interpretation is also a "gift" that has been done away with. If so, why are any of us wasting our time on this?

    Consider, I spent years going to meetings and studying the publications. Now I'm expected to unlearn vast details that I wasted many man-hours learning. Hence, they except adherents to learn more/new specious teachings that may well be supplanted in the near future.

    I would like to fully comprehend the GB's assertions of a; "Spiritual Paradise" based upon a foundation of inaccurate (false?) teachings. This apparent theory of; "that was the truth, then" and; "this is the truth, now" is not tenable.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    That video's interesting. I'm sure that Bush probably did play up his folksiness to appeal to middle America. But the old clip sounds like something he practiced; I would need to hear more old samples before I agreed that his linguistic abilities declined, intentionally or otherwise.

    Anyway, I agree that the GB doesn't have a long list of successes to their name. These days their claim about the accomplishments of God's Kingdom through their org. center on the business-like activities which they carry out. It's true that they are running a business that has been around since the 1800s, and that's a rare accomplishment, but detracting from that is the fact that they are a publisher of religious literature, so they are not competing in a normal area of the capitalist market. People trying to explain Apple's success as a company often call Apple fans "religious", but there's few better examples of the power of actual religious devotion to a company than the WTBTS.

    So it's true that they don't have a lot of successful predictions under their belt (they would point to 1914 as one, but beyond that, the pickings are scarce). Now, the spiritual paradise seems to be defined as the loving brotherhood of the organization, worshipping together in a way that God approves of. Besides the doctrinal changes that you mentioned which bring into question how they could be approved of by God if he's so picky that he won't accept any other religions, it's also hard to see how JWs are more loving than any other people.Anyway, I don't make a great WT apologist since I don't believe any of it now. If there's a better answer to your questions, I can't think of it. I think it's a good question to ask believing Witnesses: what is the proof that the GB are the rightful spiritual leaders of God's people?

  • b00mslang
    b00mslang

    I think part of it is the emotional investment. As a so-called "born in", I used to just chalk things up to; "The Society knows best". That is, when I would read or hear things that didn't jibe w/ the scriptures, I would basically ignore them and think that it was my understanding that was at fault.

    Perhaps I didn't want to really examine these things for fear of what I might find?

  • flipper
    flipper

    Nothing good. Peace out, Mr. lipper

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