by choosing life 59 Replies latest jw friends
If someone broke into my house, I have no predetermined belief as to response; and so it is highly likely that the natural actions of self-preservation would kick in. Who the hell am I to jdge such natural instincts as evil? This is the problem with religion. It ends up making concrete judgments which divide everything and everyone into groups of good and evil; which sustains duality, and then so conflict and war.
Well said! A simple, yet, important point well worth making. Thank you.
I'm not answering for Sid, but the problem here is that yes, all things change. However, there is that which is not a thing, nor in movement. It is That, which all thingness and movement exists within. Find that within your self. It, is closer than the mind. Closer than the body.
Essentially, the Eastern mind moves away from the specific toward the general.
The Western mind moves away from the general toward the specific.
The west has hatched technology, science and prosperity at the cost of overcrowding, pollution and xenophobia. The East graces itself with social manners, ritual and poverty at the cost of prosperity.
I guess I'll take the West.
I find the Eastern philosophy reads more beautifully than doctrinaire Western-version Christianity. But, that is probably the price the West must pay for having Aristotle.
Essentially, the Eastern mind moves away from the specific toward the general.
The Western mind moves away from the general toward the specific.
The west has hatched technology, science and prosperity at the cost of overcrowding, pollution and xenophobia. The East graces itself with social manners, ritual and poverty at the cost of prosperity.
I guess I'll take the West.
I find the Eastern philosophy reads more beautifully than doctrinaire Western-version Christianity. But, that is probably the price the West must pay for having Aristotle.
interesting terry. i guess the eastern mind would just say that we are following a different dharma, but that all paths lead to the same place, all doors to the same room. and the west...well, the west is interested finding a subtle way to sell hamburgers to the hindus. i mean what a market. but this is characteristic. traditionally, anyways. in the west we mark progress as a civilization in material and economic terms. and traditionally in the east, in life stemming from the vedic anyways, the progress of a civilization was marked with the "spiritual" elevation of it's citizens.
i'm not going to say which i will take, since this is an illusory duality, and plus, i'm western. i'll take what i believe is the best and beautiful from both.
although, i belive it was balzac who coined the term specialist, in his specializing way, to describe someone who finds an internal infinity in reduction. to me, this denotes an essence similar to characteristics of a nirvana state of mind. recall guatama, the first buddha, had "set his mind on the chain of causation".
peace,
tetra
Maybe God and his Son are in a different part of whatever exists outside our universe, and when they created humankind, they left it to see how and what they would do with this gift of life. The gospels speak of Christ's return which has always left me with the question, "Return from where?"
Amazing, I would be very interested in seeing your answer to this question. Please don't make us wait too long!
Essentially, the Eastern mind moves away from the specific toward the general.
The Western mind moves away from the general toward the specific.
This occurred to me some time ago. Nowhere is this more obvious than in the esoteric arenas, where Eastern mysticism seeks to empty the mind (meditation, etc.) and the Western seeks to overload it (Gematria, QBLH, etc.), both with the ultimate goal of Enlightenment.
Buddhist philosophy is essentially that of pretending that something such as suffering "doesn't exist, doesn't matter" and disregarding the consequences. The implosion of the intellect in Buddhist philosophy, in effect, tells us "The only way to win is to not play the game." The Buddhist sits in the lotus on the sideline humming while the real world struggles away.
terry, i would call this the strawman of a western mind.
let me put it this way terry: if you find yourself and the top of a stack of smart people in the west, please do no presume to undertsand the east as well.
Buddhist philosophy is essentially that of pretending that something such as suffering "doesn't exist, doesn't matter"
incorrect. suffering is a state of mind. and mind can be controled, instead of controling you. this is the purpose of meditation. suffering can be avoided by consciously living compassionately. but if it doess come, it is no longer really suffering since you have inner peace. when suffering comes to the doorstep of a buddha, she does not wail "woe is me!! woe is me!!". it's really about acceptance. suffering is a part of life, and life must be accepted in all of its paradigms.
and disregarding the consequences.
incorrect. the buddha was setting his mind upon the chain of causation, in a natural way, before western philosophers were. one cannot be enlightened, and not have fixed his mind on the chain of causation, which means that consequences are always thought of, and the most compassionate route is chosen. if only the western mind could begin thinking like this, the world would be much more peaceful. plus to disregard consequences is dark karma.
The implosion of the intellect in Buddhist philosophy
this is a western strawman, value laden with the way you think, and need to believe, the intellect works. it's not an implosion of intellect. it's a stepping aside of intellect, as a construct of mind and ego. it means approaching intellect and mind as a tool only, to be laid aside when one is finished using it, instead of it becoming the thing controling you. remember, thinking is an addiction, terry. when one learns to step aside from the mind, the ego stops fueling the constant stream on language flooding through that tool. this is essential to finding and keeping inner peace, because the mind and ego do not live off of inner peace, but conflict and duality. when you step out side of the mind, the illusory importance of the past and the future disapear, or retreat, and the now becomes all. this is a powerful tool lost on western thinkers of a material slant. i know, because i was one too, and still very much am still. and this is where lasting, true inner peace and compassion come from. the now.
if it is uncomfortable for you to approach buddhism because it is a "spritual tradition", then put that label aside, and see it as the psychological methodology that it is. daystar called it philosophical prozac. well, i would argue that it is much better than prozac. prozac alters your brain. buddhism expands your mind. one side effect of that is inner peace. this is a permanent, psychological change, in a material way.
words, especially specialized western words, will not truly ever explain the newly evolved bubble of consciousness that many buddhists have attained, not to say buddhism is the only way. and that is because language, being synomonous with human self consciousness, is a tool of the mind. the material mind. and that's fine and good. but it is only one place on the evolutionary branch of our psychogenesis. remember this, even if you find it humourous.
in effect, tells us "The only way to win is to not play the game."
it's the western mind that is interested in games, and winners and losers, not the buddhist's. you sail from samsara to nirvana, not race.
The Buddhist sits in the lotus on the sideline humming while the real world struggles away.
perhaps you have missed something terry. perhaps you are aware of the fallacy in what you just did there, but have not awakened beyond the prejeduce of it. perhaps, terry, the struggle itself is an illusion. people around you create problems and struggles for themselves, and you are expecxted to participate in them? no. you show them a solution with as much compassion as you can muster. if you do not think that is enlightened, then you do not undertsand enlightenment in relation to human struggle. simply put. perhaps the buddhist practices this because the west has created its own struggle, and he is compassionately trying to show the way out of the struggle by not participating in it? you scoff at this, indeed. after all, how could it be that the west is wrong about how it approaches the world we live in, in essence and detail? woe is us! we were wrong about some stuff!
perhaps you feel that the evolutionary winners are the apes that "survive". perhaps you do not believe that human consciousness is something that evolves. perhaps you feel that materialism is the pinnacle of human conscious development, and that if there is any more consciousness evolution, it will be toward greater objectivity and reduction. perhaps you are wrong about this. perhaps you have not yet found the venerable place that exists outside of mind. remember, nirvana is not something that happens after you die. it happens now, right now. the person who attains nirvana in life, is exempt from the karmic wheel, and like a candle flickering out when she dies, goes to eternal sleep. death.
what are your motives?
tetra
"If nothing is permanent, how can permanence be realized?" daystar, how can a man return to a place he never left ?
Beautifully said, Sid,
Maybe God and his Son are in a different part of whatever exists outside our universe, and when they created humankind, they left it to see how and what they would do with this gift of life. The gospels speak of Christ's return which has always left me with the question, "Return from where?"
Being God would be the greatest of all curses.
Boredom!
How to entertain a mind that knows all?!!!?
A bright child is easily bored; how much more so a brilliant transcendant being???
IF there was such a being(ness), it would undoubtedly be a feat of achievement to create a situation in which this being cannot know in advance an important outcome. It would require unpredictability.
Sound familiar?
what are your motives?
My motive is to experience my ignorance in terms of its place in the stream of unknowningness.
