Have you abandoned the hope of everlasting life? (page 7)

wanderlustguy: "How can you really live if there is no end to it?"

That's easy, because "Life Begins at 40"+000,000,000,000,000.

;-)

j/k, couldn't resist.

---------------------------------------

To answer the main question in its four parts:

Q-1: Do you still believe or nurture in your heart "living forever in a paradise earth"?

A-1: Yes to the Living Forever part, but in an incorruptible, immortal body that goes to heaven when the Lord descends and calls us up (whether "Dead in Christ" at that time, or "Alive [in Christ] and Remaining" at that time); but "no" to the WT phrase, "...on a paradise earth." [The "paradise earth" a/k/a "the Kingdom of God on earth" is for the remnant of natural Israel who will be saved out of the seven-year "time of Jacob's trouble" a/k/a the "tribulation," along with "tribulation saints" (those who become believers DURING the tribulation.]

---------------------------

Q-2: And even never having to die in "this old system"?

A-2: Absolutely YES, the possibility is definitely there: "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that WE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. THEN WE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS." - 1st Thess. 4:15-17 (Compare also 2 Thess. 2:1)

"For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that WHETHER WE WAKE OR SLEEP, we should live together with Him. Therefore COMFORT EACH OTHER and EDIFY ONE ANOTHER, just as you also are doing." - 1st Thess. 5:9-11

-----------------

SIDE NOTE to Q-2 above: TIMING re: "this old system" and the "last generation" - FORGET everything you ever learned from the WT about this...

Yes, we have the opportunity to still be "ALIVE and REMAINING" when the Lord Jesus descends from heaven to call up all believers IN HIM because:

1. The "this generation shall no means pass away" (Matt 24:32-35) began when the "fig tree sprouted leaves":

"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh." -- The "short" explanation is this is coming up, but I recommend this link http://focusonjerusalem.com/israelandthefigtree.html for a fascinating and complete explanation, some of which I will include below:

[quote]
[...]
The command to "learn" is invoked in this usage. What have we learned from the fig tree? We know that Israel was the good figs that God promised to restore a kingdom to; and that when God sent forth HIS Branch, ( Jesus ) that while it was still yet "tender", that the branch ( Jesus ) would be "cut off"; ( killed ) but not to worry, the Branch would sprout forth "leaves", ( church ) and that those leaves would be a grafting addition to the branch; and then afterward, that fig tree ( Israel ) WOULD REBUD, or BLOSSOM, and then the second crop of good figs would be harvested (Israel's salvation ). Israel is the natural branch of the fig tree, while the church, or Christians, are the grafted on branches. The Church does not replace Israel, it was simply included into the productivity or fruitfulness of the tree.
[...]
Jesus used the parable of fig tree to display to the disciples, and then to whole house of Israel that although they would reject their Messiah, still he would come back unto them a second time, but only after they had learned to cry out to for him, as one mourneth for his only son. The old testament prophet Hosea had hit upon this very delay in Israel's restorative seasonal rebudding:

Hosea 6:1-2: "Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for He hath torn, and He will heal us; He hath smitten. and He will bind us up. AFTER TWO DAYS will He REVIVE us: in the THIRD day He will raise us ( Israel ) up, and we shall live in his sight."

The fig tree of Israel was destined to be scattered among all the nations of the world for two complete days of God's timetable, ( 1000 years/ one day ) but on the third day, Israel would be providentially returned to its land, and begin the rebirth process:

[Scattered IN the 1st day (0 - 1000) and through the 2nd day (1000-2000) and we are now in the 3rd day (2000-3000).]

So then, Jesus' very death and resurrection served as a paradigm for the restoration, and the rebudding of the fig tree which is national Israel.
[...]
Is it any wonder then, why Satan, the Great Red Dragon will pursue Israel with an all out vengeance during the Tribulational era? The reemergence of the state of Israel has always been a prerequisite for the fulfillment of prophetic destiny for all nations. The nations of this world are afflicted with a demonic disease that ultimately points to the acute pecularity of the peculiar people, Israel.
[...]
God says in Ezekiel 28:25-26, that when He has gathered the house of Israel from among all those nations to where they were scattered, that He will execute His judgements upon all those nations that despised Israel; and that they will know that the "I AM" of Israel is indeed God: From Isaiah 4:2: "In that day shall the Branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the Fruit of the earth shall be excellant and comely for them that are escaped of Israel."

Without question, the rebudding of national Israel [60] years ago now [come May 2008; or 40 years come June 2007/recapture of Jerusalem in June 1967], is the most powerful message that God has sent to the nations-peoples in the last 20 centuries, since the first visitation of the Branch. In restoring Israel once again in their homeland, God is raising up an ensign, or banner, which the nations of the world cannot ignore. To the nations, God says from Ezekiel 36:23: "And I will sanctify My great name, which was profaned among all the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them, and the heathen shall know that I AM the Lord, when I shall be sanctified in you ( Israel ) before their ( nations ) eyes."

God is about to undertake a great shaking in the land of Israel. The Fig Tree has been planted, but just as in the vision of the "Valley of Dry Bones", Israel still is not spiritually alive; but that blossoming will take place upon the return visit of Jesus Christ to ISRAEL. The second crop of good figs is already budding on the Branch. The Satanic hosts which are staged to pursue Israel will lead the nations to their fates; when God shakes the Fig Tree: Revelation 6:13: "And the stars of Heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

The parable of the fig tree carries with it a like promise as the one which was made to Simeon. As Simeon was promised to not see death until he had seen the Messiah, also the rebudded generation of regathered Israel will see all things fulfilled before it passes. ( Matt 24:34 )

---

2. As already stated, Israel was established "in one day" on May 15, 1948. Some say the "last generation" began then, so yes, we can still be alive when the Lord comes for his "Body" {1 Thess. 4:15-17}. 60 years as of May 2008.

3. However, Israel recaptured Jerusalem in toto in June 1967. That was the "end of the Gentile times" (ie, the end of the time the Gentiles would have dominion over Israel). This is the more "popular" date for the start of the "last generation" more commonly referred to as the "terminal generation":

[quote] ...in Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy the countdown to the 1st coming began with the rebuilding of Jerusalem, not the re-gathering of the nation (Daniel 9:24-27). If history repeats itself we should probably consider using 1967, the year Jerusalem became a Jewish city again instead of 1948, the year the nation was reborn. [end quote]
Source: http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/the-terminal-generation

So how long is a generation, really?

Answers that I, personally, agree with (due to this, and all the other obvious signs that are taking place along with those mentioned above):

[quote] ...the genealogy of Jesus, divided into 3 groups of 14 generations each; one from Abraham to David, one from David to the Babylonian exile, and one from the Exile to the Messiah (Matt 1:17). The first one (Abraham to David) is subject to interpretation, but the second and third are clearer. According to the NIV study notes David was born in 1040 BC and Jesus was born no later than 4BC. 28 generations between 1040 BC and 4 BC makes the average length of those generations 37 years. [end quote]
Source: http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/the-terminal-generation

BTW, when the Psalmist wrote that a lifespan is 70, or if by special mightiness 80 years, a very FAMOUS WT scripture (Ps. 90:10), he was most likely describing the "life span" of those that wandered in the wilderness w/himself. See: "Psalms 90 - A PRAYER OF MOSES THE MAN OF GOD" -- Matthew Henry Commentary on Psalms 90: http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/mhc/MHC19090.HTM .

See also this:

[quote] This "one generation" idea has Biblical precedence since all the major prophecies pointing to the first coming were fulfilled within the generation in which the Lord was born. So right away everyone starts speculating on the length of a Biblical generation and that's where the trouble starts. First of all the terms "generation" and "life span" are not equivalent, and yet some people go to the verses defining "life span" (Psalm 90:10) to determine the length of a generation.

Similarly, when the Israelites refused to go into the Promised Land for fear of the Amorites the Lord condemned all the adults except for Caleb and Joshua to death. He said they'd wander in the desert one year for every day the 12 spies were in the land and during that time all the adults age 20 and over would die. The spies were in the land for 40 days so the term of punishment was set at 40 years. During that 40-year period, the Israelites conducted an average of 85 funerals each DAY to remind them of their failure to obey until all the adults had died (Num 14). This event led us to speculate that the length of a generation is 40 years when in fact the Lord had really limited the life span of those adult Israelites to coincide with the term of the punishment. [end quote]
Source: http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/the-terminal-generation

Hope that helps!

-------------------------

Q-3: Or do you now believe in life after death as a spirit being in heaven?

A-3: If anyone "in Christ" dies before the Lord descends to call up believers (as described in A-2 above), then, yes, that believer's spirit goes to heaven at death to await the day the Lord descends to call up all the other believers. At that time that person [who had previously died], their spirit will then be reunited w/their resurrected "dirt body" which will "BE CHANGED" instantly to an incorruptible and immortal body at that resurrection of all those "dead and those who are alive and remain" in Christ:

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all BE CHANGED -- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." "O Death, where [is] your sting? O Hades, where [is] your victory?" - 1st Cor. 15:51-55

---------------------------

Q-4: Or have you abandoned the hope of everlasting life?

A-4: Not for a second, not even while I was "in between" throwing out WT theology and before I understood correctly, so I'm w/Ozziepost on this. Once it was clear the WT's interpretations were all askew, things got BETTER! All it took was to keep on knocking/seeking/asking, and the hope of eternal life provides something much more awesome than the WT ever explained, because all those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ will get to be with him all eternity in glory.

---------------------------

First step for the "wrenched" and "destroyed" such as dmouse and under-believer: Please forget every WT interpretation re: life/death/resurrection, etc. Get a Bible version other than the NWT to help in this regard. And, please, start over. Just give it one more shot, then if you still don't believe, you can "give up on the idea."

dmouse wrote:
During my 'awakening' from the JW induced coma - I became deeply depressed when I realized I was actually going to die after all and there was nothing I could do about it. [sure you can! see above info]
There's a faint glimmer of hope that scientists will be able to extend life significantly but as for living forever, I truly have no realistic hope. [can't argue w/you there about the scientists]
Even now it wrenches my guts out when I think about it. I so desperately don't want to die but I might bloody well have to. [not necessarily! please don't give up yet on the idea!]

under-believer wrote:
dmouse, that is exactly how I feel about it. It practically destroys me every day of my life. [this breaks my heart. C'mon you guys, please give scripture and God ONE MORE SHOT, the answers really are there, the HOPE IS THERE. If anybody desires help, please holler. I'm no scholar but I definitely see things a lot more clearly now].

God bless everyone!
/abbagail

Have you abandoned the hope of everlasting life?

proplog2

tan

abbagail

tan

Share this