Oh, just so you folks know, dont think for a minute that the WT Society is above using a disfellowshipped lawyer (especially one that is favorable toward them). They will use any means necessary to protect their assets.
JW Children Lie in Custody Cases
by compound complex 290 Replies latest watchtower bible
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pilgrim searcher
Uzzah’s words have a “ring of truth” associated with them to those who have lived the experience. To those who haven’t, Uzzah could be lying about his background and experience and how would we ever know. So his testimony will likely be viewed differently depending upon your own personal “agenda.” Having said that, I will comment later on why I personally believe Uzzah and why I think the booklet in question was written to be deceptive in an “indirect way” in accord with what I will call the Society’s principle of “theocratic warfare.”
Note- I have a somewhat long message, but the system would not take it. So I will have to enter it piecemeal. This is my first "post." Does anyone know what I may have done wrong to have my original "long" post ignored?
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pilgrim searcher
This is a continuation of my “first” post which was rejected the first time around for reasons I have yet to discover. (continued…) To somewhat validate my testimony, I will give some background information. Having been raised a JW, I hated meetings all my life. Up to the age of about 5 or 6, if I could sleep through a meeting, I thought my prayers had been answered. In later years I started “drawing” to pass the time. Drawing was specifically discouraged, however, because it suggested that I wasn’t really paying attention and thereby set a “bad example.” I am not too sure to whom I was being a bad example because all the other kids my age felt the same as I. They did not need a bad example to make them “hate meetings.” The meetings achieved that status all on their own it seemed. So instead of being a bad example, it was advised that we young ones keep track of how many times a word like “Jehovah” was said during the meeting. However, that practice was short lived in my recollection because that meant that my parents would also have to listen to “check my work.” The reason I tell you this is because if I, as a child, were ever required to give any court room testimony about meetings, it would have been bad. If I said anything at all nice it would have been an honest “lie.” However, the last people I would have wanted to find this out would have been my parents. If it were left to me alone, I would have said all the things I thought they would have wanted to hear. This is the reason why I think that JW kids have to be “coached” in order to let them know what specifically Jehovah, His earthly Organization, and his parents “assume” they will to say because it is the Truth. If they told “the truth” as I have suggested it to be, their case would be lost.
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pilgrim searcher
(continued #3 …..)
Now to the point of this discussion. During my stay at Bethel, I made many precious friends among which was one who worked, and I think still does work, in the Society’s Service Department. During a discussion about the Society’s liability in enforcing “Society Policy,” he causally said that the Society only makes “suggestions,” and it is up to the congregation Elders or the individuals involved to decide whether they will follow the suggestions. So the Society is not responsible for any decisions Elders or Parents might make in most circumstances. He added, however, that, depending upon those circumstances, suggestions can be given more weight by using simple “assumptions.” He illustrated this by saying that if he wanted to add weight to a suggestion he might preface it by saying, “we ASSUME that the individual involved has been relieved of their responsibilities unless you have decided to do otherwise etc.” My experience has shown that it would take a very courageous Elder to “decide otherwise.”
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pilgrim searcher
This is my “fourth” submission in response to Uzzah. I am still not sure why my original responses have been rejected. It may be “length.” Maybe the system feels the same way about “long winded” responses as I felt about JW meetings, … zzzzzzzz. (Continued #4 ….. ) As Elders, it was our understanding that when it comes to legal matters, we were always to be aware that the Devil would use “matters of law” to oppose God’s people. This fact lead to the “unofficial and unstated” principle that “theocratic war tactics” may require us to withhold information or to be deceptive if circumstances required it. The word lie as I recall was defined as “withholding information from those entitled to know” or something like that. Within this context, it would seem that you could only lie to the Society because they were the only ones, as Jehovah’s earthly representative, who were truly entitled to know anything. So it was up to the individual to decide who is entitled to know other than the Society or its representatives. In defense of this policy, I remember that Bro. F. Franz quoted David’s experience with Saul and Jesus’ dealings with his disciples as examples of “strategic” theocratic testimony against opposers of Jehovah. With regard the latter case, I will include the Scripture he used and you will have to decide whether Jesus “lied” to his disciples because, under the circumstances, they were apparently “not entitled to know” of his plans and so his words to them would be “theocratically strategic” and not necessarily an outright lie. [(John 7:8-10 NWT) “You go up to the festival; I am not yet going up to this festival, because my due time has not yet fully come. So after he told them these things, he remained in Galilee. But when his brothers had gone up to the festival, then he also went up himself, not openly but as in secret.”] The bottom line is that my experience indicates that every knowledgeable Witness is assumed to know how to “read between the lines” when it came to Society-instructions. This is certainly evident in the current practice of “disfellowshipping” people without saying that they are disfellowshiped. Somehow, though, everybody seems to know that how these “dis-membered” ones should be treated.
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pilgrim searcher
This is my fifth submission to Uzzah regarding this issue. I am still apparently hitting the “word ceiling” and haven’t learned what the maximum is yet. Please be patient. For the “interested” reader, please find posts #’s 1-4 in order to understand this on-going saga. (Continued #5 … ) Similarly, this should also be obviously true with regard to suggestions issued by the Society that deal with child custody disputes. In my opinion, I believe that the custody booklet was very carefully “crafted” in compliance with the putative “theocratic warfare policy” principle. It was intended to advise a parent how to “coach” their children to focus on the feelings Jehovah would expect them to have as my personal experience with regard to meetings would suggest. I am sure that I would have been a good “kingdom soldier” and said all the “right things” to the extent that I could remember what they were suppose to be. In my opinion, anyone who truly believes “otherwise” was never a JW kid. So the booklet isn’t intended to be a lie, it is intended to “defend the truth” tactically.
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pilgrim searcher
This is, hopefully, my final post in this series. I hope the message has made some sense to some of you. The actual crux (if I may use that word) of the matter deals with JW bashing more than the child custody issue. (Continued #6 … ) I have to think that Eduardo, being an attorney, is fully aware of these “theocratic tactics” and himself typifies a “good Witness” attitude with regard to loyally defending the Society’s position no matter what the facts would suggest. That is exactly what I have done in the past. Like Eduardo, I also do not like JW bashing. My parents, whom I loved (they are both deceased) didn’t “officially” speak to me for the last 15 years of their lives. During that period, their Granddaughter, (my daughter) grew up. My parents tried to buy her affections but were not successful. My daughter is not nearly so understanding as I am and this was a source of bitter grief for my parents. I also know my parents were very “good” people and gave up or lost far more than I during this period of official isolation. They did it for Jehovah and not because they didn’t love me and my family. No other power on earth would have made them do the same because they were loyal “fighters” and lived a life of self sacrifice for their god and his Organization. If more people had their zeal for obedience and loyalty to a lawful cause, the world would be a far better place in which to live. How could I ever “bash” them or others like them for such godly zeal? So I will conclude with the words, “Eduardo, I will be interested in your testimony after the JW “veil” has been fully removed from your heart and eyes. You have a unique perspective, as do we all, with regard to your experience as a JW. What will be really interesting to me is to hear your testimony on how you found a better life outside the Watchtower -- Shalom Eduardo.”
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sf
Welcome a-board Pilgrim searcher.
If I may...
the Society only makes “suggestions,” and it is up to the congregation Elders or the individuals involved to decide whether they will follow the suggestions. So the Society is not responsible for any decisions Elders or Parents might make in most circumstances.
How con-venient and par for Watchtowers Course.
In defense of this policy,
There is absolutely no defense for any of this bogus organizations policies.
did it for Jehovah and not because they didn’t love me and my family. No other power on earth would have made them do the same because they were loyal “fighters” and lived a life of self sacrifice for their god and his Organization. If more people had their zeal for obedience and loyalty to a lawful cause, the world would be a far better place in which to live. How could I ever “bash” them or others like them for such godly zeal?
I must say that I find this portion a bit disturbing.
You must realize that this Watchtower Jehovah is a fear tactic used by this fraudulent book publishing corporation. When that happens, you will know just what love actually meant and means to them.
We all have power beyond our imagination. No other power CAN be more intense. You must learn how to tap it though.
When speaking of a book publishing corporation, "godly zeal" seems a bit ridiculous once you KNOW the truth about its lies and deadly policies.
And what of jws bashing others with "godly zeal" for THEIR beliefs? Do you care about THAT?
Again, welcome to the forum and hold on for the ride!
Sincerely, sKally
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Junction-Guy
Pilgrim Searcher, I agree with you. I too would have told the real truth about JW's in court if I was asked. I would have to be coached by my parents to say otherwise. That is the purpose of this booklet, because if JW children were to tell the real truth about their JW life, the case would be lost, no doubt. The purpose of this booklet is to help the parents coach their kids into convincing the court that they have a normal life and a normal outlook, just like other children of different religions.