JW Children Lie in Custody Cases (page 13)

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Dear Friends,

Thank you for the many "reads" since the re-emergence of this very important topic. JWD has taught me to not become discouraged.

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AuldSoul

Eduardo: I don't see anything wrong with the directions provided. The idea is to present that JW kids are interested in other things other than spiritual things which is certainly the case. In this way a Court can see that JWs are not religious fanatics, that their faith is important to them, perhaps the primary thng in life, but certainly NOT the only thing in life.

IF the kids genuinely are interested in things "other than spiritual things" and the JWs genuinely are not religious fanatics, why would "care" about these questions be required?

I don't think that question is unreasonable. Do you?

AuldSoul

Be careful they don't all say that they are going to be pioneers.

If the children have all been raised by Jehovah's Witnesses and the parents have instilled the priorities encouraged by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, then all the children want to become pioneers.

Why? Because the religion is full of parents who are religious fanatics who—first and foremost—want to bring about more religious fanatics, either their own children or someone else's children (through bible studies).

If they "all" want to be pioneers, but "they don't all say that they are going to be pioneers", then at least one of them is lying.

If the instructions tell a parent to be careful that at least one of them lies ... well, it seems to me that either the goal for children should not be pioneering, or the children should lie about it when asked.

I wonder which the Governing Body member who gives the Keynote Address at the DC will side with? I bet that someone listening to him would come away believing this guide encourages the JW child to lie.

But, fortunately for the cultist seeking custody, the judge deciding the custody case is unlikely to have heard the Keynote Address.

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bttt

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IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM, Ray Franz, p. 285

Once more, the young people counseled to respond in this way must know that they are being asked to present an outlook that is very different from the one urged upon them in Watch Tower publications. If they are speaking the truth, without 'twisting it a bit,' they would not have to be told to speak differently from the way they would in a circuit assembly---or anywhere else for that matter.

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AllAlongTheWatchtower

RE: Oroborus21

Not sure how to take this guy...I think some of you may have misjudged him, he might simply be very conflicted and searching for answers himself. I base this hypothesis on the fact that I found this link on his site: http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/Money.html which offers CoC for sale, and also has a link to the freeminds site*. Furthermore, he also has a link to a page that seems to promote a countermovement of JWs from the inside out: http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/Revolution.html It would almost appear as though he fancies himself a JW double agent...or is it triple agent?

*Plus many others: http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/Links.html

Definitely seems a bit slimy though, since his site sponsors this link:

http://www.ukrainian-dreamgirls.com/

And I find it ironic that he seemingly supports the JW cause, and wonder if he has JW clients, and what they would think of this link:

http://www.oroborus21.com/oroborus.html

Snakes and spirtism and mythology, oh my!

TO: Oroboros21:

If your daughter's website is solely for family, why put a link to it on your business website, for all the web viewing public to discover? Your denial of grasping for donations seems a bit hollow on that point. And if you truly see yourself as an agent of change (as seems to be indicated by your 'Revolution' link) from within, how can you in good conscience defend the booklet being discussed in this thread? Keeping up appearances to be able to work 'inside' is one thing, but at some point you have to draw a line in the sand.

RE: The Original Topic

I can't provide too many details, as doing so could (slim chance, but chance nonetheless) lead to me being identified by family members, but I was a child in the WWCG, founded by Herbert W Armstrong. I have never been a Witness, some of you familiar with my story may know I joined this site to prevent my wife from becoming entrapped by them before it was too late. In my efforts to do so, I began to remember some of my childhood experiences, and noticed how similar stories I read on here about the JWs were to my own in the WWCG. (Sidenote to Oroborus21: if you really do want to change the Society from within, you would do well to research Armstrong and how that church reformed upon his death, if you have not done so already, but I have a suspicion you have.)

This is one area which REALLY brings back the old memories. I became a ward of the state after being taken from my parents' custody in my adolescent years. There were several court trials due to this... it is still difficult to think about this time period in my life, but in the end it was a good thing for me. I already had doubts about "God's one true church" (funny how they ALL claim that) because of my interest in the sciences and how it conflicted with biblical accounts (the flood, etc), even at that young age. Then due to my participation and testimony in the court cases my parents and I were involved in, I was DFed from the WWCG, and told not to come to any more YOU (Youth Opportunities United, the church youth group) events. I was deemed a "bad influence on the other youth" and potentially "a bad apple that could spoil the whole basket". I had also "failed to honor your father and mother". I was 13.

While in foster care, I enjoyed new freedom, even dared to eat forbidden foods like ham and seafood. (I was also near convinced that when I threw up after eating crabs for the first time that it was a punishment direct from god for daring to eat "unclean fruits", though I later realized that I had probably just eaten those little parts you aren't supposed to...to this day I don't really like shellfish much.) After about a year though, due to my own fears about my uncertain future if left in foster care longterm, and emotional blackmail on the part of my parents, and to be quite honest, a bit of homesickness, I started wanting to go back. My father would call me before court dates, tell me things like "I'm gonna go to jail if you testify" and "Your mother is thinking about leaving me, if she does we won't be saved" (WWCG taught that divorce was a taboo of the highest order). He would then try to coach me on answers to various questions I might be asked. Whether he had help from a booklet similar to the one discussed here, or from a church pastor, or did it on his own, I do not know. But it was definitely an effort to put some very bad things in a completely false light, for the better.

Suffice to say that when the date of one of the biggest courtdates came, I found myself very confused. I had been taught all my life that lying was wrong, but here I was being told to lie. As I sat on the witness stand, I had no idea how to solve this dilemna or what to do. So I rationalized that not speaking was not lying, and faked (in retrospect, fairly easy to do, and probably pretty close to doing so already anyway, though I had always prided myself on being a very logical and calm person, not emotional) an emotional breakdown, just sat on the witness stand crying. After a couple minutes when the judge could plainly see that no useful testimony was to be had from me, I was excused. The case was dismissed in short order, and soon after that I went back home-only to discover after a couple months that the old adage "careful what you wish for" was certainly true. To this day I sometimes wonder what might have been had I spoken up and testified...

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Dear Allalongthewatchtower,

Thank you for a very moving account that parallels our own WT experience. Given all the similarities between the WT and WWCG, I wasn't aware that this was one of them. I'm grateful that you have been willing to share this beautifully-presented and heart-felt information. It is my hope that many more will read and benefit from it.

Sincerely,

CoCo

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BTTT

JW Children Lie in Custody Cases

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