The serious conversation with the wife about the cult

by OnTheWayOut 67 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Thank you all for compliments on our open communications in the marriage.
  That is truly not due to our being JW's. We both entered marriage after
  examing our own parents' bad examples. We decided to do better. We
  are over 15 years of marriage now, still tight.

  Special thanks to those who shared some personal insight:
  Cognizant Dissident, outoftheorg, penny2, truthseeker, ithinkisee, NanaR,
  purplesofa, avidbiblereader, TweetieBird

  Nathan Natas, I will look into the movie "Ticket to Heaven"

  I am not AFRAID to tell my mother that I stepped aside as an elder. I was just
  trying a different approach to help her become AWOKE to the WTS. A non-JW
  sibling and I decided that I would say nothing to Mom, and sibling would try to
  open Mom's eyes. That's not going as smoothly as I would hope, so I need to
  let Mom know that all is not fine with my relationship to WTS. I am pretty certain
  that I could eventually win Mom over, so I am just being cautious, not making an
  issue over her- she was DF once over 1975 and did not like it.

  I am still interested in comments about fading faster, dealing with elders getting
  inbetween wife and I (personal experiences or opinions on what might happen).
  Thanks all for your help. I love you guys. Thanks for the long readings you did.
• 

  jayhawk1

  "Well, many people who leave the truth start to lead a life of sin. It could happen."

  (I've only read posts 1 and most of 2, but when I came to this statement I had to comment. I promise to read the rest especially because your posts are some of the best.)

  Isn't this typical of the mind control you've read about in your books? This one is a tough one for the fully indoctrinated JW to get past. As if somehow by remaining a JW keeps one from "living a life of sin." What ever happened to personal choices? It just never occurs to the JW mind that perhaps if they don't want to practice a certain "sin" they don't have to. Say "no" to drugs, say "no" to stealing, say "no" to whatever you object to. It doesn't take Watchtower meetings and books to keep you from "living a life of sin."

  But convincing a JW of that... well that's a hard one.
• 

  Doubting Bro

  OTWO,

  I'm not sure your conversation could have gone any better. You are an inspiration to me! It sounds as if at a minimum (which is awesome) your marriage is going to be just fine and theres at least a possibility that she'll come to the same conclusion that you have.
• 

  jayhawk1

  Nathan Natas, why do you suggest looking into what JWs teach about Scientology? In all my years on this board, I have never seen that suggestion.

  Onthewayout, your conversation with your wife was amazing. Again, this is a troubling statement...

  "My mother raised me to get married and have someone else make decisions for me,

  That definately reflects JW mind control. I'm not smart or experienced enough to offer anything more to this conversation, but I do wonder...

  How do you keep your wife from knowing about this discussion board? Do you think she will accept your plan of reduced meetings and traveling with her to assemblies / conventions? How do you know the CO will not want to meet with you to discuss why you've trailed off on your service to Watchtower? Aren't you a former elder? If you are, wouldn't they make it a point to visit persons who once had privilages to see why they don't want to have those privilages again?
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Again, this is a troubling statement...

  "My mother raised me to get married and have someone else make decisions for me,

  That definately reflects JW mind control. I'm not smart or experienced enough to offer anything more to
  this conversation, but I do wonder...

  How do you keep your wife from knowing about this discussion board? Do you think she will accept your plan
  of reduced meetings and traveling with her to assemblies / conventions? How do you know the CO will not want
  to meet with you to discuss why you've trailed off on your service to Watchtower? Aren't you a former elder?
  If you are, wouldn't they make it a point to visit persons who once had privilages to see why they don't want to
  have those privilages again?

  Jayhawk, thanks for the input and questions.
  My wife and I are on very different schedules. I have much time to go online without her around. I never have
  suggested that I look at apostate information. Deep down, she may be sure that I do, but hasn't asked. I would
  not give her a totally direct answer- and she would know to stop asking.

  She will have to accept the reduced meetings and would welcome the traveling (better than nothing).
  She won't like it, but it won't strain the marriage if we continue the way we are going.

  Read the first link on my opening to this thread about how badly my CO has handled things so far.
  When I say that he might do nothing or little (whatever I said), I could be very wrong- I just go by history.
  I also include information to the wife that the BOE will eventually ask her to get inbetween me and them, so
  I do expect some trouble. It's just been so minimal so far. Of course they will want to shepherd me, some.
  I will not have them to my home, I have already learned that I would need to meet them where I can walk away
  at any time. They will not include my wife (afraid to let her see open questioning of the WTS) in the discussions
  and I already know that I MUST DANCE WITH THE BOE OR C.O. meaning that I cannot give them enough to
  form a judicial committee. I must say, "I am fine. Still doubting. I have some specific problems (cover old information
  that they never helped me with before about [generation] and [1975]. I am sticking to reading WT information and the
  Bible (If wife mentions cult information, I just say it's not by former members, it's for personal learning.)" While I am
  an honest person, I have no problem with lies to the BOE. The WT literature says that we don't need to tell the truth to
  those not deserving the information. If their goal is to DF me, then they don't deserve information from me.

  Thanks for making me think about these things. All the input is welcome.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  "My mother raised me to get married and have someone else make decisions for me,

  That definately reflects JW mind control.

  Oh, on that comment.

  Yes, that reflects JW mind control. But my wife wants to be an independent thinker as
  well as independent, financially. She went to college after we married, because her
  parents wouldn't hear of it. She has taken classes that the average JW would totally
  frown on, yet not wrong for a JW. (She avoided Debate classes and took some social
  study of RELIGION, there are African Culture classes in her past that include learning about
  beliefs and customs)

  I have always tried to expand my understanding of what I thought was the truth from JW doctrine.
  Since I freely questioned things, I did not hold back my wife from pursueing what she wanted.
  Part of our great relationship is that she was allowed to do what she wanted after being denied
  that by her parents.

  My wife knows that her statement in the box above is absolutely true. She still sees her mother
  judging her heavily, causing her to confide in me instead of her mother. She confides in me instead of
  anyone in her family. This can be a burden at times (women need to vent with women) but I take it so
  that I know what's on her mind. It's a blessing and a burden.
• 

  jayhawk1

  COs come and go. Your dealings with your current CO suggests he either doesn't care or is incompetent. Not exactly a bad thing from your perspective. Around here we've had some that liked to "keep the congregation clean." It must have been awhile since the local congregation has had one of those. As it has been 5 years since an elder has contacted me for "incouragement."

  Of course they will want to shepherd me, some. I will not have them to my home, I have already learned that I would need to meet them where I can walk away at any time.

  You are so smart about how you are handling this! I can offer something on this. Allow me to tell you about the last time an elder wanted to bring the CO over for incouragement (5 years ago).

  Elder named Ben, "Hello Jay, how are you today?"

  Jay Hawk, (My name is really not far removed from this BTW.) "I'm great Ben..."

  Ben, "Well, I won't keep you long. Recently we've got a new CO and he would like to stop by and meet you. Would you be available Tuesday afternoon around 4?"

  (Keep in mind this was a week in advance. How did this CO know he wanted to talk to me so soon? If somebody could help explain this one to me, I'd welcome it.)

  Jay, "Umm, no thanks."

  Ben clearly shaken, because he never expected me to say that, "Well, our meetings are Tuesday night, Thursday night and Sunday morning and we'd love to see you there. Bye."

  Jay, "Talk to you later. Bye."

  I've learned that it is okay to even tell these people "no thanks." They can't gather information if you don't give them any. I hope your wife can live up to her promise and not snoop for them. If your wife can keep her promise and you say "no thanks" they can't do much about you. Who knew two words could do so much?
• 

  megsmomma

  I think you did such a great job also, as a loving, caring husband. Yoiu are showing her that you are a great man, not just because Jehovah makes you be one. I feel that you are well on your way with helping her to see the way it really is.

  My only advise would be not to be wishy washy now that you have come this far. Prove that you have no doubts about your decisions.

  Thanks for sharing.....I can't wait to get to know HER someday!!
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Thanks Jay.

  I am willing to sit down with 2 elders when they say they want to talk to me.
  I find it odd that they haven't done so, yet. After the CO spoke with me, and
  said that the Society letter to the BOE was to "snatch me out of the fire"
  I started turning in ZERO hours for the last 3 months, with no requests for
  meetings with the elders. They seem afraid of me. When they do ask to
  talk to me-
  Talking "TO" me will mean I am there to listen, without much input.
  As soon as it becomes an "Answer our questions" session, I will say
  NO THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. I AM FINE. GOODBYE.

  I will absolutely refuse to meet with my current CO. I will just use the past
  meeting as a reference. "He only had 15 minutes for me last visit. He had
  prior dinner arrangements that he couldn't miss to help one of the flock.
  Tell him I have prior dinner arrangements this time. No thanks"
• 

  Crumpet

  I dont have any advice to add but wnated you to know I am reading all your posts on this subject with avid interest. I really hope your wife will joi you on your journey to independent thinking at some point in the not so distant future. From how you to describe your totally in tune conversations - her knowing what she can ask if she wants to hear the truth and your patience in subtlely communicating to her no more than she can handle and being extremely sensitive to her anxieties and wish to be honest - I would say your marriage and relationship could only get stronger from this. The longer that she has to understand your developing thoughts and intentions without the negative and disruptive input from the elders the better your chances are.

  Keep posting and like megs momma said I look forward to her chatting here some day too!