Grissle: The Watchtower Society is a printing company, nothing more.
Actually, your wrong. The Watchtower Society is the legal representative of the organization known as Jehovah's Witness. They say so in all their court cases.
So, now you've learned something about Jehovah's Witnesses from a forum.
steve
So little knowledge
by grissom6471 66 Replies latest jw friends
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stevenyc
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Leolaia
grissom says that "The Watchtower Society is a printing company, nothing more". Not only is this grossly incorrect, it is also contrary to the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses as presented in the publications of the Watchtower Society (carefully worded for grissom's sake). For, if it really were only a publishing company, it would not bother itself with the internal affairs of congregations beyond the supplying of literature. Unless the "spiritual food" provided in the Watchtower is contrary to the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, the actual belief is that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is the primary instrument through which God organizes his earthly Witnesses in a theocratic arrangement.
As noted in the Proclaimers book, the theocratic arrangement was announced in the 15 June 1938 Watchtower, which claimed that "all servants in the various positions of the organization of the remnant or anointed ones of God's people on the earth are properly named by the Society as the visible representatives of the Lord" (p. 182, quoted in the 1 December 1951 Watchtower, p. 725, available on the WT-Library CD ROM). On p. 219 of the Proclaimers book, we learn of a resolution suggested in that issue of the Watchtower that was adopted by congregations worldwide: "We ... recognize that God’s government is a pure theocracy and that Christ Jesus is at the temple and in full charge and control of the visible organization of Jehovah, as well as the invisible, and that ‘THE SOCIETY’ is the visible representative of the Lord on earth, and we therefore request ‘The Society’ to organize this company for service and to appoint the various servants thereof". The Society was not a mere printing company to be used by Jehovah's Witnesses; it was claimed to be an entity used by God to govern and rule them. The word "Society" is not used in a broader sense, as these are explicitly "appointments by the Watch Tower Society" (15 June 1938 Watchtower, p. 181). As noted in the 15 October 1959 Watchtower, "this theocratic resolution was adopted and acted upon by the congregations of Jehovah’s witnesses wherever found; and the visible governing body at the Society’s headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, proceeded with theocratically organizing all willing congregations. All new congregations established since then have been organized theocratically in this manner from their very start" (p. 632).
This view has been stated as such ever since, with some equivocation between "God's earthly organization" as equivalent to the Watchtower Society, the "faithful and discreet slave", or Jehovah's Witnesses. In the 1 October 1950 issue of the Watchtower, we read:
"The Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society is not the great mother organization of Jehovah’s witnesses who have received the Kingdom truth through it and who cooperate with it world-wide, using it as their legal and business servant and advisory governing body .... However, what we see exemplified in God’s woman, his heavenly universal organization, we should look to see in his visible organization. Why? Because his higher, greater universal organization uses it as her earthly instrument. That is why we do see those motherly traits, those traits and acts of a virtuous woman, in the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead and in the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, because these profess to represent and serve God’s woman. We thank God for providing and using them" (p. 347).
Here the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is the "earthly instrument" that "represents" God's heavenly organization and "we" (= Jehovah's Witnesses) look to it as its "visible" counterpart (i.e. Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT the "visible organization" per se but cooperate with the "earthly instrument"). Similarly, the 1 April 1953 Watchtower claimed that "the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society," namely the "legal servant and governing agency" of Jehovah's Witnesses, is "inseparably associated with this widely known organization". Compare with grissom's complaint that "there are still people here associating Jehovah's Witnesses with the Watchtower Society when that is not the case", the exact opposite of what is stated in the Watchtower. The 1 June 1955 Watchtower more explicitly says that the theocratic organization "functions from Jehovah down, the earthly part of it from the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society through the branches to the districts, circuits, congregations and then the individuals" (p. 330). Also the 1 October 1957 Watchtower warns against grumbling about those "appointed to take the lead by Jehovah’s visible organization, the Society". The 15 January 1962 Watchtower discusses the "organizational training" received by Gilead graduates "at the headquarters of Jehovah's visible organization" (p. 63). Note that the earthly organization has a "headquarters". In similar terms "the central headquarters in Brooklyn, New York" is called "the very summit of Jehovah's consecrated visible organization" in the 15 April 1960 Watchtower (p. 249).
The 15 October 1962 Watchtower states that "the Society also appoints ministers to a variety of service privileges" in "Jehovah's organization," including vacation, regular and special pioneer ministers, circuit, district, and zone servants, missionaries "and branch office staff members who live as Bethel families". This is the same authority of appointment mentioned in the 1938 article. The 15 May 1964 Watchtower refers to the "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, representing the 'faithful and discreet slave' as mentioned in Matthew 24:45" (p. 305). Although some references to the Society referred to it only as a publishing agency, others clearly attributed to it broader scope. For instance, the worldwide preaching work is "being done under the direction of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society" (1 May 1964 Watchtower, p. 283), and pioneering is described as "full-time preaching under the direction of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society" (1 November 1970 Watchtower, p. 666). There was a significant change in 1971 when the focus shifted from the President of the Society to the Governing Body, which disentangled ideologically the Governing Body from the legal corporation, and there has been a principled (if not vacuous) distinction of the "faithful and discreet slave" from the Society, but the publications equivocate on this as well:
"However, about a hundred years ago the "faithful and discreet slave" class again began to come forward as a loyal advocate of God’s Word. With the years it has become ever more visible and noticed by the world. The facts show that today this "slave" is identified with the Watch Tower Society" (15 March 1982 Watchtower, p. 21).
This reflects the fact that everything associated ideologically with the phantom "faithful and discreet slave" (e.g. the publications, the legal entities, the theocratic organization structure via branches, districts, circuits and congregations, the rules of procedure followed by elders and other servants, the properties and kingdom halls, the conventions, the Gilead school, etc.) are "visibly" produced, direct, or owned by the pluriform Watchtower Society. The BOE letters giving instruction to local congregations were all signed as "Watchtower B. & T. Society of New York" until the recent reorganization, and since then bear the names of its associated corporations (particularly, the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"). Similarly, the Watchtower Society gives "official" teachings, views, counsel, etc. in its publications. In the 1 July 1952 Watchtower "Questions From Readers" (p. 414), "the Watchtower Society says to take the children to meetings". In the 1 November 1961 Watchtower "Questions From Readers" (p. 670), the reader asked concerning vaccinations: "Has the Society changed its viewpoint on this?", and was given the response: "That is still the Society's viewpoint on the matter". The 15 February 1963 Watchtower notes that "at times it may be necessary to write to the Society about a matter if it is important in one's ministry" (p. 125). In the 15 November 1964 Watchtower, the Society speaks of itself as giving the official Jehovah's Witness position on blood: "The Society does not endorse any of the modern medical uses of blood". Another article refers to "the truths of God's Word, as taught by the Watch Tower Society" (15 July 1965 Watchtower, p. 442). The 1 April 1967 Watchtower emphasizes "how necessary it is to apply all instructions from the Society" (p. 203). And "the Society in recent years has recommended greater flexibility in our congregational service schedules" (15 July 1969 Watchtower, p. 430). There is a reference to "the Watch Tower Society's teachings" in the 15 February 1984 Watchtower (p. 22). Such expressions are a matter of habit, though in recent years the Society has discouraged saying such things as "the Society teaches" (15 March 1998 Watchtower, p. 19).
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avishai
Also you have no knowledge because I don't agree with you.
Wow. I could'nt have put fundamentalist dogma/hubris any better. "You have to believe because I say so!!" I have the RIGHT to be intolerant because I AM right, however YOU have to tolerate any nonsense I say even if it turns out to be old light!"
Close enough...
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AuldSoul
Dear S.K.,
Some of us have little knowledge, admittedly. Some of us have been out for so short a time that our knowledge has barely begun to flourish. Some of us have been out for so long that we no longer even care about your cult, one way or the other.
However, some of us have been granted special knowledge (S.K.) by you. Knowledge which I am certain you were never even aware you volunteered. For, S.K., if your congregation knew the knowledge you voluntarily granted me, you'd find out you do not have sanctioned authority to post here after all.
Isn't it a good thing that instead of being mean and spiteful toward you, when it is clearly within my power to do so, I choose to honor you and treat you with respect? I wonder if you will similarly honor my challenges. You asked us to challenge you, I did so—offering 6 challenges. You have failed to respond.
I do hope you will respond. I even hope you will be honest enough to admit you have no Scriptural support for any of the teachings/practices I challenged.
Here's the thread: Grissom, will you stand by your words?
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
Gill
Grissom makes a very important point.
The WTBTS wants people to think that it is not in charge of the individual congregations of JWs.
That way it is not responsible for such issues as the cover up for child molestations.
It communicates by 'word of mouth' with the elders so that nothing in writing can be held against it in court can be held against it. It's a sneaky, slithery bugger!
Yes Grissom. We have plenty of knowledge about the WTBTS and we DON'T like what we know about it!
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AuldSoul
Oddly enough, Gill, the COs (if I was informed correctly by my last CO) are representatives of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., not, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses (legal entity). Although they are legally reps for the publishing company they are also representatives to the Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses (conceptual entity).
Now, this distinction puzzled me until I thought on the matter further. DOs and COs are the middle-management. Elders and MS are like assistant managers. Zone Overseers and Branch Overseers are upper-tier management. Of the publishing corporation, not of the CCoJW (legal entity).
This is not anywhere close to the First Century model. Authority in the First Century church represented the interests of Christ Jesus, not the interests of a book publishing concern.
But I am sure this has never even scratched the first layer of this purveyor of Special Knowledge (S.K.) who has metaphorically graced our doorstep with his bag of poo ... he forgot to set it on fire, but it stinks and must be thrown out just the same.
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WTWizard
So little knowledge of Jehovah's Witnesses?
Just about everyone on this board has some inside knowledge of that religion. The majority are either active members that are having doubts or former members that have been hurt by it. Some are relatives, including unbelieving mates, of active witlesses. They all have been touched by the religion.
Besides this, there are people that are still in, that post material directly from the Washtowel Slaveholdery. These include the new Kool-Aid Washtowels, letters that are not supposed to leave the Kingdumb Hell, and materials months before they are supposed to reach the witlesses. More recent publications that have been released on this board include the 2008 Kool-Aid Washtowel, the ban on independent sources for research, "valueless things", the themes and programs for the Grand Boasting Session, and upcoming Waste of Paper Distribution Campaigns.
Many posters are, or were, hounders and/or in Beth Hell. Obviously, they have the inside information on the religion. Quite a few will happily put up letters that are not supposed to be known to the average publisher, or at least not before a certain date. Some have accounts to SendSpace to put up such materials. And most of us peruse the Internet for other sites sponsored by other apostates. Some even go to the official site and take material directly from there, and dissect it and post it here. Obviously, we have knowledge of the religion.
Additionally, most of us have more objective information. We have been there, and no longer believe in their control mechanisms to prevent more objective analysis. So we actually know more than the average witless. It helps to collude with other posters. In doing that, I know more about what is going on in the religion just from this forum than I would ever know by going to any Kingdumb Hell.