Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore!

by AnnOMaly 288 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  AnnOMaly

  Interesting observations by everyone.

  Garybuss (p.6) said:

  The more I think about this article and re-read it, the more I wonder how the Society disconnects the closed door teaching relating to 1935 and not disconnect the start of the identification period for the great crowd as well.
  
  The big deal in 1935 was the identification of the Jonadabs, or great crowd, not the end of the heavenly calling. Am I seeing a straw man?

  I don't think you are. I think you're hitting the nail on its head. However, back then they believed the tribulation was underway and that Jesus was sitting on his judgment throne, separating the nations. Now, since the mid-90s, the separating of sheep and goats is future. Not only that, but technically, the great crowd are only id'ed at the great tribulation - a future event.

  And later ...

  That would allow as many to go to heaven as wanted to and nothing changes here on earth because all are inferior to the Governing Body. The Governing Body can now claim the title "faithful slave" exclusively and ditch the idea that an abstract bunch of scattered people, mostly old women, make up the "faithful and discreet slave class" and are only represented by the Governing Body. The Governing Body goes to absolute power, not a part of a class, but they become the class.

  Bingo! Matt. 24:45-47 could still be made to fit, I think.

  Slimboyfat (p. 6) said:

  If the number of partakers goes up even by a few thousand, I think the literal 144 000 teaching might have to be reconsidered.

  And if the 144 000 is not literal, then who is to say that everyone is not anointed?

  And if everyone is anointed, then there are no separate classes of believers.

  And if there are no separate classes of believer, then maybe there is no special "faithful and discreet slave" class either.

  The literalness of the 144k could still be kept.

  One possibility is just simply move the selection of this group INTO THE FUTURE. The great crowd of Rev. 7 are said to be identified on coming out of the still future great tribulation. Why not the identification of the 144k too?
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  heathen

  I remember back in the early 90's they already started with the replacement dogma . It's entire possible from that standpoint because the 144k have to live a life of celebacy and complete service to God and then have to show they can surrender their life much like the apostles did and jesus . They do die as martyrs and the bible is clear that most people will not live up to the requirements , the many are called but few are chosen scripture comes to mind. The problem is that they were lying for a long time and made promises that never saw fullfillment.
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  garybuss

  On the topic of faithful slave replacements, there is no allowance for ANY replacements. The three slaves were tested and either passed the test at the end or they failed. The reason they were called faithful and discreet slaves is because they were faithful and discreet AT THE END of the test, not in the middle.
  
  The slave who was not faithful and discreet AT THE END was the good-for-nothing slave. He didn't start out a faithful and discreet slave and then lose the master's cash and get replaced.
  
  The replacement teaching is nothing but Fred Franz's dream.
  
  
  
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  truthsetsonefree

  The slippery Watchtower changing the doctrine to fit reality rather than their doctrine just be right from the getgo.

  tsof
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  heathen

  Looks like I'm going to have to disagree with garybus . The scripture appears to be saying the slave is found to be faithful and discreet to begin with but then later because the master is delaying begins to beat his fellow slaves . Of course nobody is going to take a literal beating from these old timers it must be talking about piling more demands on and making a heavy load for the R&F , demonizing people for noticing the lack of prophetic accuracy . That sort of thing ..............
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  garybuss

  Heathen, I'm reading Matt 25: 19 - 28. Sorry for the confusion about which slave parable I was referring to. In the Matt 25 parable the master does not designate the titles to the slaves until the end of the test period.
  
  No mention of any replacements.
  
  The Watch Tower Society teaches in types and anti-types and of course, they take liberties with the applications of the anti-types.
  
  
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  unbaptized

  I know for sure that the Heavenly calling did not cease in 1935. This calling is still going on at present. I feel the WTS made the first mistake of counting the anointed in the first place. They should have never started doing that anyway.

  Second they should not have placed literature stating that the calling had ceased. People make mistakes that's understandable. Also they need to stop saying that a person is only called who is baptised. A person can be called even before he is baptised with water. The scriptures show it plainly.

  The final sealing is done when that person faithfully conforms to God's standards of living and conduct and then dies as a faithful servant. John the baptiser was far more righteous than his followers who became Apostles to our Lord Jesus, but Jehovah chose those who are lesser than John the baptiser.

  So the anointed are insignificant to the world, rejects, broken and unwanted by the world of mankind. They are torn and abused by this ungodly world, they are rejected even amongst their brothers who they love dearly.

  The truly anointed ones who have the Heavenly calling will definitely be rejected by their own christian brothers and sisters.
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  heathen

  That's not the scripture they use to explain the FDS dogma tho , not that I know of anyway. Of course I was never a devout dubby so not sure on alot of the application on various scripture. I think that scripture was probly applied to the zions watch tower with Russell ,like all other religions didn't qualify and then the Russellites were chosen.

  Unbaptized why don't you just get baptized already .LOL I'm gathering from past experience here that you feel you are "anointed" without ever being baptized?
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  garybuss

  Heathen, are you saying the text allows for replacement faithful slaves? Please walk me through that if you would please.
  
  Here's a recent article about the Watch Tower slave teaching and the proof texts used.
  
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  The Watchtower 2004 3/1 p. 12 pars. 20-21
  A "Slave" Who Is Both Faithful and Discreet
  
  20 The members of the "great crowd" gladly joined the anointed slave class as preachers of the good news. As they preached, the Master's earthly belongings increased, adding to the responsibilities of "the faithful and discreet slave." With the number of truth seekers swelling, expanded printing facilities became necessary to keep up with the demand for Bible literature. Branch offices of Jehovah's Witnesses were established in one land after another. Missionaries were sent out "to the most distant part of the earth." (Acts 1:8) From approximately five thousand anointed ones in 1914, the ranks of God's praisers have increased to more than six million today, the majority of whom are of the "great crowd." Yes, indeed, the King's belongings have increased manyfold since his coronation in 1914!
  
  21 All of this shows that the slave has been both "faithful and discreet." Just after he spoke of "the faithful and discreet slave," Jesus gave two parables that highlighted those qualities: the parable of the discreet and foolish virgins and the parable of the talents. (Matthew 25:1-30) We are intrigued! What meaning do those parables have for us today? We will take up this question in the following article.
  
  
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  moshe

  It looks like to me they will now have to make this years summer assemblies a full week long in order to straighten out the massive FUBAR they have created with this short article. Even the book they use at their JW indoctrination studies with new converts is now out of date and will have to be replaced- most of the recent WT books will now have to be placed in the same garbage bin with Russell's and Rutherford's past embarrassments.

  the May1st WT is the FUBAR of all FUBARS for JW's today.

  Thanks Gary B. , for the 1936 analysis about the Jonandabs!