by Merry Magdalene 147 Replies latest jw experiences
WAC:
You have a set of beliefs, yourself, even if you don't call them "religion". Why do you choose to limit yourself?
Who says WAC has limited himself, like Merry?
Once you choose a belief system in which one states they have answers from God then you limit yourself to adaptation and change! My belief system is more about ideas which are much easier to change then a belief!
... I hear call of the sea, in the whispering song of the breeze, the roar of the fire, and the heartbeat of the soil beneath...
Yes that was beautiful Ross.
Merry, I enjoyed reading more of your story, and I won't add much to the comments I have already made on the other threads...
I suppose what I most like in Islam is a certain sense of fate that our Western culture has lost with its exhausting ideal of free choice (what the Greeks called heresy); which I feel would be a bit at odds with the idea of choosing Islam as a religion. From this perspective your description of conversion as realising you were a muslim had a very genuine ring. Whether you can be a muslim as defined by what you are presently studying is another matter -- it's a question of being true to whatever God (metaphorically speaking, or not) made you. I personally feel that my only way to be a muslim, in the etymological sense, is accepting who I am and the path I am treading, no matter how strange and self-contradictory it may get.
Edit: here's an aspect of Islam you might be interested in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hallaj
any form of religion limits you to a set of beliefs. why do you limit yourself again?
She actually has no choice... Her theist demands limits... And she will follow... Believe Christ or DIE, fly a plane into a building or DIE. There is no option... Is there...
Merry,
It takes a lot of courage to expose your inner self to an international discussion Board filled with such a variety of people from the cynic to the lunatic and back again, and I admire that at least.
Then, when our daughter was about 4 years old, I had what I believed was a mystical experience with Christ and became a nondenominational unorthodox Christian.
Can I ask, what do you put this experience down to, now that you are a Muslim?
HS
Can I ask, what do you put this experience down to, now that you are a Muslim?
The same as anyone else. She had an "EXPERIENCE' any other explanation requried. I don't think so....Allah spoke, Jesus spoke. God spoke.. What more do you need...
Merry That's OK, I hope you *are* thinking about it. The paedophile scandal is the reason I left the JWs, I would be a hypocrite if I then joined a faith that revered a paedophile as God's last prophet. I might as well have stayed a JW (or gone back!) and defended their policy.
Zeroday,
The same as anyone else. She had an "EXPERIENCE' any other explanation requried. I don't think so....Allah spoke, Jesus spoke. God spoke.. What more do you need...
Your post makes little sense, but I am presuming it has a sarcastic element attached?
I would be interested to know what differentiates a Christian 'experience' from a Muslim 'experience' or for that matter any other religious 'experience', and whether in fact such 'experiences' are viscerally unique. If they are, as I believe, merely chemically induced by the mind, body or a mixture of both, then it seems to me that no person could ever rely on a religious 'experience' to prove anything but that they are surceptible to being dicated too by their heightened visceral inclinations. In this at least, Christians and Muslims speak as one.
I am far more interested in hearing from Merry, to whom I originally posed the question, than anybody else, as it is she who lived through this experience.
HS
I apologize, Zeroday, for not responding directly to your comments as they are not entirely clear to me. I think I get the general idea, but not enough to frame a reply.
Hillary Step: Can I ask, what do you put this experience down to, now that you are a Muslim?
Sure, no problem. I have to say that this was a hard one for me to be honest with myself about as I was very attached to my mystical 'experiences' both as a Pagan and a Christian. Now I would agree with you that they can't be relied on to prove anything. It seems to me that they can lock you into a sort of closed cycle of an (oft times hidden) belief or desire creating an experience, with the experience in turn being used to further create and support the initial belief and/or desire. I don't know about the chemical aspect of it, though.
I did not have a similar 'experience' in becoming a Muslim, although I have had some 'incidents' since then. I remain more detached from them now. I don't take them and run with them, so to speak. I wish I could speak more clearly on this. It's a little difficult to find the words. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I find that if I keep these things to myself or limit conversation to those who feel the same way I do, it becomes easier to lapse into laziness and even dishonesty with myself. Although I guess that can also be a danger when feeling constantly on the defense. I feel like this thread is striking a nice balance and I appreciate that.
~Merry
unbeliever: When I first read you had converted I felt you traded in one high control cult for another high control cult. Understandable. I think it is a misunderstanding but an understandable one. I read your journal entries on myspace. Very informative reading from your prospective. I am friends with a couple of ex muslims and they don't have very many positive things to say about the religion. I would be interested in knowing their experiences.
There is not a lot to tell. They are friends I met in college. One was a guy and he said that his father was very abusive toward his mother and sisters. When he married a Jew they disowned him. He told me a couple of times the muslim religion teaches hate. He says his father is the type of person that would carry out an "honor killing" w/o thinking twice about it. He says he is happy his family disowned him and he would not have it any other way. He left the muslim religion when he moved here to the states.
My other friend hardly talks about what happened to her but I am going to assume it was tramautic because she always starts crying when anybody gets her to try and open up. All I know is her family tried to force her into an arranged marriage and she ran away. She is worried sick that her sister will be forced into an arranged marriage. After she ran away her family packed up and moved back to the middle east (Jordan I think) and she has had very little contact since. She is a Christian now and attends a Baptist church.
Merry:
That's kinda what I was going to say, but then again isn't "limited" a lot like "confined?"
Yup. I guess I struggle with the concept of attempting to stay still in the "flow" of development for anything more than a breather. When you're ready come back in, the water's lovely
Kerj:
Who says WAC has limited himself, like Merry?
I do. He's limited himself by his own set of beliefs which currently won't let him explore Islam or Christianity from the inside. A limit is a limit, whichever side of the fence you place yourself...
Didier:
Yes that was beautiful Ross.
I was feeling poetic
I suppose what I most like in Islam is a certain sense of fate that our Western culture has lost with its exhausting ideal of free choice (what the Greeks called heresy);
That could be why I have a penchant for Scottish Calvinism, with its predestination and generaly Stoicism in the face of providence.
I personally feel that my only way to be a muslim, in the etymological sense, is accepting who I am and the path I am treading, no matter how strange and self-contradictory it may get.
Nicely put
Does that make you a "revert" to Islam?
zeroday:I agree with your comments, but find your tone a little aggressive. It might just be me, or your terseness (which I'm usually guilty of, too), or a lack of emoticons, or something else. Can't quite put my finger on it.
Hillary:
...such a variety of people from the cynic to the lunatic and back again...
Mea culpa
Anyhow back to Merry - this is a good thread..
