How the Religious View Homosexuality (page 6)

Sirona

I don't follow any part of the bible.

Are you seriously suggesting that the old law is still valid? If so, why are the other laws not followed? (e.g. slavery, not working on the sabbath, etc.)

Sirona

bernadette

Why is it then, that such change in attitude is always a few steps behind a people not governed by Scripture, and never the other way around?

The teachings attributed to Jesus Christ were radically different and they killed him. It seems to me that some of his teachings were looking forward to a time when people wouldn't be governed by scripture (or moral absolutes). To me that's what it means to be fully human. So in answer to your question - we are getting there - imo its something to aim for.

brinjen

Are you seriously suggesting that the old law is still valid? If so, why are the other laws not followed? (e.g. slavery, not working on the sabbath, etc.)

Now that is a good point. Can anyone else enlighten on this?

serotonin_wraith

Sirona, I don't follow the Bible either, but I'm saying that for those who do, there needs to be consistency.

If someone doesn't want to think homosexuality is a sin, then they shouldn't be saying we should follow the ten commandments. You're right, not working on the Sabbath, slavery, etc isn't carried out now. It's ridiculous to think they should be! Therefore, if people are picking and choosing which parts to follow, why do they need the Bible?

bernadette, by your reasoning, if moving away from scripture (the word of God apparently) is a good thing, then atheists are the most worthy in God's eyes!

Sirona

That is why I raised the issue of the New Testament. I considered that most Christians would say that the old law wasn't applied anymore and therefore they base their condemnation of homosexuality on the New Testament.

The verses referred to do not, in some people's opinion, refer to homosexuality as practiced by some individuals nowadays.

Sirona

jgnat

Serotonin, this argument is starting to go in circles. Listen very carefully. Not all Christians take a fundamentalist, literal interpretation of the scriptures. I understand why a debater would like to pin the bible on a believer, because the bible is full of inconsisencies and cruelties. Poke at the bible, poke at the believer. My view of God transcends the bible descriptions. Just because that view comes from me instead of a book, does it make it any less divine?

You cannot take a single scripture, "the law is not done away with", and expect to pin the entire old testament on me. I've explained how the higher principle of love transcends all laws, and is indeed harder to follow. If you want help reconciling the OT with the NT, go find a fundamentalist to argue with you.

I'm answering the principle question of the thread, "How the religious view homosexuality." I am answering, as a religious person, from my point of view. Please at least honor my views as my own.

I contend that Christianity must be spread by word of mouth and by example. Jesus did not write any epistles. Rather, he selected a dozen people to live, eat, and follow him around. That tells me that Christianity is something that must be learned by example and close personal contact. This model, by the way, was how I became a Christian. I was in distress and begging God for release. God led me to some people who helped me escape. I stayed with those people for a very long time for gratefulness and fellowship.

Words are not enough. Sometimes I think that written wisdom interferes with bright new faith.

serotonin_wraith

jgnat, you say that your own thoughts on the commands of the Bible are just as valid as the Bible itself. It almost seems like you don't believe the Bible is the perfect word of God. You even speak of inconsistencies and cruelty within it.

I think it comes down to one of two choices- either the Bible does have mistakes and you cannot find it within you to agree with all of it, in which case why do you need the Bible if you know the difference between right and wrong, and furthermore how can it be the perfect word of God?

The second choice is to accept that God wishes you to live by everything in His inspired word, and the question becomes, why are you deviating from it when you find something you don't agree with?

As an outsider, that is what it looks like to me, and you shouldn't take it as a personal attack on you. I'm just asking questions.

bernadette

bernadette
, by your reasoning, if moving away from scripture (the word of God apparently) is a good thing, then atheists are the most worthy in God's eyes!

but atheists don't believe in god or do they

Personally I don't believe that the bible is the word of god but I view it an authoritative work of sincere believers in god who claim that it is of divine origin.

bernadette

jgnat

My irritation comes from repeating myself, serotonin.

jgnat, you say that your own thoughts on the commands of the Bible are just as valid as the Bible itself.

I believe that God-breathed creation can interpret the bible freely.

It almost seems like you don't believe the Bible is the perfect word of God. You even speak of inconsistencies and cruelty within it.

Correct.

I think it comes down to one of two choices- either the Bible does have mistakes and you cannot find it within you to agree with all of it.

I thought of an illustration last night that might help. John Kennedy was assasinated. This happened forty years ago, and it is a well-known fact. The circumstances surrounding his death, however, are already been twisted and tested by kooks, conspiracy theorists, and dedicated researchers. Who has the truth? How would you know what the truth is? The closest person to the truth is the eye-witness of the time, and even he would only see the events from his own perspective.

I believe there was a historical Jesus, and the events of his short life are generally corrrect. I don't think there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll, however, and I don't think at all that the bible has preserved a pristine version of events 2,000 years after the event.

why do you need the Bible if you know the difference between right and wrong

Third time, it is my vision of God, which I received from fellow Christians first and the bible second, expanded from my own experience and mediation, that leads to my morality.

and furthermore how can it be the perfect word of God?...The second choice is to accept that God wishes you to live by everything in His inspired word and the question becomes, why are you deviating from it when you find something you don't agree with?

Fourth time, I am not a fundamentalist. There are other sorts of Christians, and you have just found one of them. I've listed the principles, which I believe reside behind the great commandments of the bible, and which I follow. Go back to those and discuss them, and we have something to talk about.

BFD

jgnat- I don't think at all that the bible has preserved a pristine version of events 2,000 years after the event.

I don't know why I'm getting involved in this but please tell me how you choose the parts of the bible out that have remained genuine.

I recently have come to the conclusion for myself that I either have to accept the bible in whole or reject it in whole. Currently my position is one of rejection but I remain open minded.

BFD

How the Religious View Homosexuality

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