Well, here comes a judicial committee

by drew sagan 61 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    A small recording device is on my list of things to do tonight!

    While I plan to avoid the JC, this is a good idea if it ever happens.
    Tell them you will be taking brief notes during the process. I never heard that
    you cannot take notes. Even if they don't allow it, write something down as soon as
    it's over. Later, if you have their exact words from a tape, you will be able to say you
    wrote it from memory, AS THE EXACT WORDS.

    It sounds like a no-win situation, so I hope your plans work out. They are supposed
    to help you to remain in good standing, not DF you, but we know that's not always the
    case if they have an agenda.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan
    Is this guy "new" and inexperienced?? Is he stupid?

    He is very naive when it comes to the org, and yes he is a very new elder. He also hinted at the idea of hoping for reform in the org during one of our conversations. (!)

  • minimus
    minimus

    Then Drew, don't accept anything this guy tells you in way of guarantees. He doesn't understand the game. Like I said earlier, he may very well let the elders with more experience take the lead and try to follow their direction. But if you are not uncomfortable, I'd let the others know of the good elder's expressions.

  • Chameleon
    Chameleon

    when is this taking place?

    good luck.

  • Amber Rose
    Amber Rose

    Mini,

    Yes, the "good" elder is pretty new. Only been an elder for about 2 years, baptized in the '90's maybe in his late 30's or early 40's. He looks up to the other elders, kinda like "I don't know, I'm just the new guy." This might be his first JC. He's rather smart but fooled by the innocent looking facade of the org. I believe that he honestly thinks the elders will be fair toward us. I think this experience will change him.

  • Mum
    Mum

    I once attended a JC meeting, and they used the good cop-bad cop routine on me. It was actually someone on this board who pointed it out to me when I described the meeting. I am glad I went to the meeting now. It was in the pre-internet days, and their behavior and ganging up on me for no reason made me realize once and for all what a bunch of hypocrites they were and how alarmingly I had been deceived.

    You already know, Drew, so (IMHO) there's no reason for you to go. Whatever you decide, all the best.

    SandraC

  • Amber Rose
    Amber Rose
    Another thing you might mention to them tell them that the kingdom hall didn't have enough exercise equipment so thats why you joined the YMCA

    LOL! I just might try that!

  • minimus
    minimus

    If he's new to JCs, he'll learn real quickly how things work. He might feel hypocritical about being there too but no doubt he feels holy spirit will genuinely direct things. He will be forced to acknowledge how the system works. The elders opinions usually are that even if he stops doing things by the meeting with him, let him be disciplined for what he has done and if he truly is repentant, then he'll come back stronger than ever! That is often the elder mindset. Just let Jehovah God take care of matters and this thinking, incidentally, absolves the individual elder(s) of guilt.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    Per the YMCA discussion, here are some basic points i have in defense of our position. These go hand in hand with the article published in the Watchtower of 1979 regarding YMCA membership. Let me know what you think.

    The article first says "the september 1885 Watch Tower took this position..." It then goes on to describe what the article said. I wonder how many other declarations the society made in the 1800's they view today totally accurate historically and Biblically.

    It then goes on to speak of the 'paris basis', a declaration of purpose the YMCA made in 1855. It then provides a list of many quotes where YMCA leaders make supportive comments toward the treaty. While this treaty does lightly push forth the Christian doctrine of the trinity as well as other things, one important things is missing from all of the society's comments on this issue. They show absolutely no reference where the YMCA says that all members must willingly support and give their allegiance to anything in these proclamations. To follow the societies reasoning would mean that anybody who was Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Atheist, ect. would be giving up all of their own personal beliefs by having a membership! Where does the YMCA every say that those who become members to take advantage of the services provided need to convert to religious dogma? Not one scrap of evidence is provided to show that the YMCA has ever asked such things of its members. The Watchtower simply applies it's own standard of membership on other groups, even though standards differ from group to group.

    They also go on to criticize the YMCA for backing projects and activities that helped soldiers, their families, as well as people helping in the war effort in WWII. Keep in mind that this was all written during a time in which 'alternative service' was seen as a breach of neutrality. Many of the activities mentioned in this article mimic what an individual would preform under 'alternative service', things that are totally acceptable to the WTS now, but where not when this article was published.

    In addition I plan on making reference a good number of other policies that have changed over the years. These are all policies where individuals would be strung up for apostasy if they did not comply at the time, but later on the practice that was once wicked becomes a matter of conscience. This includes blood fractions, organ transplants, alternative service, ect.

    All of this I will give as reasons for why I did not take their counsel not to be part of the YMCA without much seriousness. I will then give them the concession of no longer being a member if that is their wish. Anything they do beyond that will surly be because of their own hidden agenda.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    I understand your skepticism minimus, and believe me I share much of it.

    Don't forget it's not be who believes his promises of a fair JC, I sure don't believe that! It's my in laws that actually believe we have been promised fair treatment. If we do everything this elder says and then we receive poor treatment, my in law will be very angry. It will be a case of the local elder body crossing the line.

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