JC is over... now the aftermath

by drew sagan 66 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Scully

  AmberRose:

  I'm not sure I like the idea of DA-ing because it is an action taken on my part. I would be the guilty party of ripping apart the family.

  Don't forget that the JWs do not differentiate between DFing and DAing anymore. The announcement is simply "DrewSagan and AmberRose are no longer Jehovah's Witnesses."

  Don't use the word "disassociate" in any correspondence that you send to anyone. Tell them that you are taking a stand based on your conscientious objection to the behaviour of Elder B, namely lying, manipulating, deception and trickery of you and extended family members with respect to the Judicial Committee hearing.

  The term "conscientious objection" is a kind of silver bullet when it comes to JWs. Playing the conscience card is a very good way to come out of this smelling like a rose , and Elder B to come out smelling like .... something else.

  Edited to add: I would definitely play up the Elder B lied to us and tricked us thing - the result will be that nobody in the congregation will trust him with their confidences for a very very longgggggg time. That's a huge drawback for any BOE. That could actually be useful if you decide to take this to the CO or the WTS yourself.
• 

  undercover

  Congrats on the post count...in no time you'll catch minimus.

  Looks like they pulled the "good cop...bad cop" routine off pretty well. Even though your elder buddy caved to the pressure, it's good that you've already figured how to make this work to your advantage. Excellent recovery.

  Good luck, you crazy kids...
• 

  restrangled

  Drew,

  Elder B, gained your confidence and promptly took any info to the other participants. If he had been honest, he would have backed out of the Kangaroo court immediately by virtue of his own conscience.

  I am a long ago victim of a "2 man investigation team" at age 16. Both men met separately with me to find out what I had been doing after horrible accusations. Most were bogus. I was sobbing both times out of fear and not wanting to be thrown out.....they didn't care, I was to be trashed.

  And trash they did, after meeting without me, they announced I would be Disfellowshiped...it was the first for this team of morons.

  My mom wrote the society and after 3 months a second team was announced of 5 men. I met with them alone and literally lost my mind. All I did was sob. I could barely talk. My hands and arms went numb.......

  Again at 16, no parents, no reps, no way of knowing my options. The second team reversed it, and the entire case was brought in front of the next circuit assembly elders in a private meeting as to how not to disfellowship someone.

  You know, thats great, but I was mentally and physically destroyed at age 16.......I recovered my soul, but it still effects me to this day.

  r.
• 

  vitty

  Actually Skully is right

  When in a debate :D with my family I always say "cant I express or give my God given conscience on this matter" They always concede
• 

  hammer1

  I will try to explain, Jesus commanded us to love even our enemies. These men, especially the "Judas" who gave you assurances that I am sure you knew at the time were nonsense have set themselves as your enemy, the enemy of truth, and the enemy of Christ Jesus. My point is you are frustrated by men who do not care about you and do not care that they are spouting lies everytime they go on the platform. You were concerned about doctrines that were based on lies. They do not care about your concerns, only devotion to the organization is important to them because your devotion to the organization secures their power over you. I was suggesting you tell them that you love them even though they are seeking to put you to death, in a figurative sense.

  Just like the example of Stephen, even though he was literally put to death, he prayed to Jesus to forgive those who were killing him. Jesus himself made that same ultimate expression of love to those who put him to deah by appealing to his Father not to charge that sin against them.

  I was suggesting you show love to them in a similar way. Forgive them and tell them you love them but do not submit yourself to their abuse and treacheary.

  In my opinion, to write a letter of DA only gives them claim on authority that Jesus never bestowed upon them or any man. In the end they spin it the way they want to anyways.

  You might try writing a letter to members of the the congregation explaining the situation but it is doubtful many will believe you. Some might listen and believe you but will not have the strength to stand up for truth like you have. If just one listens though, will it not be worth it?

  A JC was convened for me and the only reason why I attended was I believed I could plant seeds of truth in some of their hearts. When it became abundantly clear to me and those who I had believed were honest were now showing themselves to be dishonest I left the meeting. I knew what they were going to ultimately do and felt sorry for them because the Bible is quite clear about what judgement is in store for these oppressive wolves.

  The most clear and undisputable teaching of Christ was to love another. Jesus also said you would know his followers by the love they had for one another. In this regard you are heeding his command by separating yourself from these unloving and therefore Godless men.

  All the Best and May Christ comfort you! I can empathize with what you are going through.
• 

  Quandry

  telling me that he had always had doubts and that I was right in feeling that the WTS had overstepped the scriptures.

  If you write anything, write this to the body of elders. Tell them that in the beginning you were just having doubts, but this elder solidified them for you. You might have gotten past them, but he vehemently stated that the WTS was "overstepping the scriptures." I would really play this up big time, as he is the one who left you out in the cold. Anything else that can be used against him, I'd include.

  Add that if you are df'd for doubts, what about him? He is after all, the one who was spreading a "new teaching" by telling you his stance on the WTS.

  But then do not dissasociate yourself. This gives the committee great satisfaction. Then they can say, "See, we knew all along he wasn't one of us, etc."

  At least make them do some work for df'ing you. By the way, when they hear back from the WTS, you know that's what the decision will be.

  If you do not dissasociate yourselves, your in-laws will probably feel better about it- that they forced you out.That you tried to comply with the elder's requests and met with them to try to straighten things out.

  P.S. We told you so.
• 

  hammer1

  yes advise Drew to be a "Judas" himself, what wonderful advice..............

  what an unloving and unchristian suggestion,

  dont go down to their scumbag level
• 

  Alana

  Could you explain in more detail what you mean? Right now at this moment they feel that I cannot be saved because of doctrinal issues, that I am just to stubborn. My DA letters purpose is to say that although I was frustrated with a lack of compassion on their part regarding Bible topics, my official reason for leaving is because of the dishonest actions

  First of all -- Congrats on 2000 posts!

  I understand where you are coming from, but in all honesty, no matter what reason you give, I doubt that any other "good" JW will see it as any better than being DF'd. In fact, in my experience, in my congregations we thought it was worse when someone actually DA'd and left of their own accord. At least with being DF'd, there was the thought that perhaps the person was sorry or there was some repentance there, even if they were punished by being DF'd....as it could have been some kind of temporary punishment by the BOE. But, to DA was totally something else.....a true sin.

  I have faded and am neither DA'd or DF'd, but I know people have wondered about my status or reasons and I have heard stories about me. The one I disliked the most was that I left because someone 'did something to me' and I was 'offended' and decided to never return to the KH. I took offense that someone would think I was so petty as to throw away something I truly believed over some slight or offense. (Of course that was not the reason nor do I truly believe that crap....)

  I guess my point is that in my area if you would state that you left because of frustration, lack of compassion, or dishonesty, JWs may just think that you are being petty, that you were tested by Jehovah and failed, and that by your leaving "The Truth" because of the actions of imperfect men (even Elders) and not waiting on Jehovah to make things right....that you are no better than being DF'd (and maybe worse).

  Of course, I'm not saying you are these things.....as we all have to do what we feel is right for ourselves.....I'm just saying that in my neck of the words DA'ing for the elders' dishonestly will not necessarily mean anything to the rank and file. The rank and file JWs may not know of your reasons and will assume that you have sinned against God by chosing to leave. If they are told the reason they may just think you are petty or too easily stumbled (kind of like some of my old friends), after all, it's inconceivable to them that anyone would ever want to leave of their own choice unless they were really deceived by Satan.

  **added later: DUH....I've been out long enough that I keep forgetting what Scully said about how they no longer differentiate between DF and DA when they make the announcement. So I guess that the rank and file JWs won't really know that it was your choice except by your saying so....or by what they "hear" (the wonderful rumor mill......gotta love the gossips.....lol...).
• 

  Vinny

  Personally I believe if one is disfellowshipped and NOT going back to meetings, seeking reinstatement etc, that they are viewed worse off than one that says thanks but no thanks to the JW's due to conscience issues.
  
  Aditionally, which of the two choices is the most accurate here? He has left the WT Society because he no longer agrees with their teachings rather than because he is an unrepentant sinner.
• 

  Quandry

  As to whether I am wanting to be like Judas:

  Well, basically as I see it this man acted just as some Puritans did at the Salem Witch Trials.

  When associates of the accused were questioned as to how they stood, they were all too willing to point the finger at the poor accused, and even began stating that they had also seen them do "supernatural things" in the night. All this so that they would not suffer the same fate.

  They sold out their friends and relatives. I don't see that as being loving. I tend to think that they should suffer the same fate.

  You are right about one thing: I no longer have love for any self righteous elder in the WT organization. Yes, I know it is unchristian. I am trying to deal with the feelings I have right now. But I do admit them.