Elders ARE idiots!!

by Gill 75 Replies latest jw experiences

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  BluesBrother

  who is the biggest Fool, the Fool or the Fool who follows him?

  "A fool such as I", perhaps?

  When I was an elder my "spirituality " swung like a pendulum from ever so, to hardly at all ..But I did believe in what I was doing. I stood on the platform and did my best to deliver talks . When I sat on the committees, I had reasoned that salvation was still in the hands of God, but I felt that we had to apply Bible law, so I did what I had to do to "keep the congregation clean"

  I worked along with one or two men who were outstanding in their ability, and in their love of the congregation .. I met many more who who were mediocre and just went with the flow. A few were downright nasty.

  As time as gone on I see them from the outside. I believe that standards are slipping faster and faster. The quality of the talks I hear is very poor. What dealings my wife and I have with them leads me to think that they are elevating their own importance at the expense of "performing a humble service" - after all the WT tells them that the r & f are "subordinate" to them, so what can one expect?
• 

  compound complex

  Gill:

  Perhaps more the exception than the rule were the elders who showed insight and compassion re: friends and family with DFd, mentally ill kids. I was there; I saw and heard the kindness in action. However, this isn't to say there was ever wholesale acceptance of parental interaction with DFd adult children. As jgnat mentioned, what's with asking permission? Some parents received congregational sanctions, but none were DFd themselves for the humane and necessary assistance they gave their ill offspring.

  CoCo
• 

  Gill

  CoCo - In the above 'experience' the parents did ask permission of fellow elders. I know, because I had conversation with the sister of the suicide victim. They asked because they feared disfellowshipping. They were told 'No' and that they would be DF'd if they were to visit her. She would not have been found if one of her sisters had not been sneaking over the back fence every day to visit her. She searched the house and found her dead.

  An elder that I can think of as a pleasant and caring bloke once asked permission of a single sister with an autistic son who also had ADHD, if he could smack him as he had just run into the road. She said yes as she feared saying 'No'. He spanked the boy several times and he then ran off into the road again to get away from him.

  The above was and probably is quite a pleasant, caring elder. However, his following WT counsel on disciplining children nearly cost this child his life.

  In nearly forty years of being a JW, and in having numerous relatives who have and still do hold the position of Elder, I can honestly say I despair of their common sense and sometimes their common decency.

  WTBTS policys on a lot of things seem to transcend common sense and therefore bring out foolishness in everyone who follows them.
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  undercover

  Elders are a lot like untrained employees given too much responsibility and power.

  I see it all the time in the workplace. Give an unqualified person a promotion and pretty soon it's apparent to everyone (except management) that the person is an "idiot". It's not that they are truly retarded or stupid, it's just that they aren't trained and experienced to do that job. They worked well in their previous assignment and someone somewhere thought that maybe they'd be good in a higher position. In time maybe they will...or they could let the position and power go to their head and become the hated idiot in charge.

  Elders are promoted ministerial servants. They did a great job at handling mikes and keeping accounts. They gave good talks and were diligent at ordering and distributing literature. Then you promote them to be marriage counselers, social workers, psychologists, doctors, etc. It won't work. They're not trained to do those tasks. You can't take an accountant and ask him to counsel marriages without absolutely any training and expect everything to be okay.
• 

  Frank75

  I am sorry to say it Gill, but your post says a lot more about you

  than the many thousands of anonymous men you so majestically denounce,

  of which, only a minute fraction you have ever even met.

  yesidid

  It does not take much to extrapolate ones personal experience. Especially when your friends inside the organization report similar conditions and experiences in their congregations and or you moved around a bit and saw the same thing repeatedly.

  Therefore those who have known 1 or 2 up to 8 or 9 out of 10 elders to be arrogant, unkind, unloving, condescending, dishonest, merciless and hypocritical are justified upon confirmation from others that this is the norm to conclude that it is the same everywhere.

  The trouble is that where there is only one tyrant or just a few, they are in such a position so as to control the whole body by either being the PO or in one of the other power positions. I knew one body that was controlled by one evil brother. That man had something on all of his fellow elders. By subtle threats he could shut down any opposition to his agenda. Since we are all imperfect, that dynamic exists in more places than you would care to know.

  It is about POWER!

  Power corrupts, it always has and always will. That is why Jesus said HIS followers were to be brothers. If that "command" was followed diligently then religious structure would disappear along with the abuse and trappings associated with the power it puts into the hands of a few men. (and women)

  JW's claim to love the bible but rarely read it and pay attention to its lessons. The problem is not the people although they do share the blame of any abuse they dish out.

  Take a look at the bible story of Saul. He was humble when he started. Had he not been made king, he may have stayed that way his entire life.

  (1 Samuel 9:21) 21 At this Saul answered and said: "Am I not a Ben´ja·min·ite of the smallest of the tribes of Israel, and my family the most insignificant of all the families of the tribe of Benjamin?. . .

  This theme is repeated throughout the bible and other similar anecdotes of our human history.

  The next issue is those who are humble, kind and merciful. Rarely do such men take issue with the tyrants around them. Many I used to talk to about their inaction would say, "Jehovah will deal with their error". This would get a response from me, "then why don't you have the same attitude about those who commit similar wrongs who are publishers? Won't "Jehovah" deal with them in his "due time" too?"

  The bible also comments about this inaction in Israel although I do not believe it has a direct connection with JW's who are just a cult, the lesson is the same:

  (Isaiah 59:14-15) 14 And justice was forced to move back, and righteousness itself kept standing simply far off. For truth has stumbled even in the public square, and what is straightforward is unable to enter. 15 And the truth proves to be missing, and anyone turning away from badness is being despoiled.. . .

  . . .And Jehovah got to see, and it was bad in his eyes that there was no justice. 16 And when he saw that there was no man, he began to show himself astonished that there was no one interposing. . . .

  There was no one "interposing" or coming to the aid of those being despoiled. They are rendered mute by the dynamic and man-made structure of the elder arrangement. They either prohibited from helping or are just cowards. I have witnessed both situations.

  Likewise, those who are best suited for positions of oversight in any endeavor are usually left out due to politics or circumstances. The bible comments:

  (Ecclesiastes 10:7) 7 I have seen servants on horses but princes walking on the earth just like servants.

  My two cents. Lastly, what is crooked cannot be made straight. As my brother who suffered repeated abuse over the years and finally left the dubs said recently, "it all needs to go into the fire."

  So true!

  Frank75
• 

  Gill

  Frank and Undercover - It may well be then that the 'idiocy' that we see in the behaviour of elders is simply due to the idiocy of what is being asked of them. Following the chain of command therefore, the real cause of this is as so many others have said the top....the Governing Body.

  The GB has no compassion, or real compassion for any of the flock. All that matters is that THEY are obeyed exclusively and without question, no matter how ridiculous their present doctrine. To question is to 'die'. No wonder elders behave so unlovingly.
• 

  undercover

  It may well be then that the 'idiocy' that we see in the behaviour of elders is simply due to the idiocy of what is being asked of them. Following the chain of command therefore, the real cause of this is as so many others have said the top....the Governing Body.

  It all goes to the top.

  Keeping with the workplace analogy, when "idiots" in middle management screw things up, everyone wants to know why upper management ever put that person in charge.

  Another perspective...you get what you pay for. Since all JWs are in essence unpaid employees, when you promote some guy willing to work for no pay, you're not going to get the brightest and best to come apply to work for you.
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  blondie

  I've also known some well-meaning, loving, kind and merciful elders. Ones who seemed to be trying to copy Jesus' examples instead of following rules handed down by the bOrg. Unfortunately, it was these good-guy elders that usually got trampled asunder by the power hungry, asshole elders on their way to kiss the COs ass. These good guys either became powerless in the elder body or would eventually burn out and step down, leaving the jerks free to wield supreme executive authority over the common folk in the congregation.

  I've seen this pattern over and over in congregations. Many congregations have more ex-elders than elders because these ex-elders know what awaits them. The new ones don't know until they are appointed then it is too late to realize that elders lie to each other probably more than to the rank and file.

  Blondie
• 

  AK - Jeff

  I had many elder friends. I did not think them idiots - but I knew they were blind to individual thought.

  Case in point; I changed congos once due to a severe level of injustice going on in the one I attended. Some of that injustice was directed at myself or my family - but most of it was directed to others who needed balm to heal - not a palm to the head. The problem was that when I told the elders in the other congregation - men that from a distance I believed to be less brain-dead than the ones in my home town - they came across with the same WTS canned responses and excuses, that for a minute I thought these guys were playing a tape recording of the years I banged my head against a brick wall to get the elders to love the R&F. It just wasn't happening.

  Gill - here is my analogy; One cannot expect a soldier, in the heat of battle, to show compassion and love to others. Once he leaves the environs in which he has been trained to kill, maim, and burn others - then he is often a man one would love to associate with. I am sure I would have hated most of the former [and current elders in hiding] here, when they were fighting their tripped-up version of 'spriritual warfare'. But likely now - away from the flames of battle - I would love to sit and drink a beer with most of 'em.

  Assholes are assholes due to the environment. Once they put on pants and join society again - they are decent chaps most.

  My take. And as you surely know by now - I am no apologist for Jw's on any level. Just a pragmatist.

  Jeff
• 

  Gill

  Undercover, Blondie and AK - Jeff - The sad thing is the heaps of tragedies that exist in the JW congregations. In the end I suppose the henchmen do what they are asked to do by their bosses. The result, is broken lives, sad marriages, suicides, a high level of mental and physical breakdown and the lack of real love and kindness that we see in the JW Congregations as they each judge, criticise and tear eachother apart.

  This is the way the WT society operates. It is hardly a suprise that it goes on thousand fold in the congregations.

  An Organization built on fear is hardly going to produce happy people.

  So glad to have left it all behind. Sometimes, I feel like I'm standing at a distance looking back at the wreckage that is the Watchtower Organization and its poor slaves.

  The unnatural behaviour that we have witnessed and continue to see in the Jehovah's Witness cult stems from a policy of deceit, lying and control at the very top. I wonder what Russell would make of his dream religion over 130 years later from its founding?