The simplest explanation of 607 BCE

by Doug Mason 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Post 1569

  Read modern history that deals with the Great War and the chronology/theology of the Gentile Times. Examine the manner yourself for it is all their before you or do I have to spoon-feed you.

  Paranoia is the trait of apostates who have nothing better to do with their time then to ridicule the Lord's people and his work. We are to busy getting onwith the job to be bothered with such nonsense.

  Yes your good news is simply an agenda of doing nothing, living an empty life with no love, faith or hope like the rest of Christendom.

  scholar JW
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  ellderwho

  Apostates are scared of scholar ............because he ........................ that his apology can be helpful .................... Scholar is helpful.

  which corrects the data by twenty years.................. Be aware of scholar's maxim;

  Ellderwho laughs at your last post. You confirm to Ellderwho your silliness regarding apologia. You amuse thine Elder with your woefull explanation of twenty years.

  Ellderwho waits for Neil to post a kings list that accounts for the twenty year gap.
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  stevenyc

  Has anyone else noticed how scholars rants have become stranger over the last couple of years?
  
  steve
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  nvrgnbk

  If you truly are a scholar, you'll find this scholarly work most fascinating:

  Apocalypses: Prophecies, Cults, and Millenial Beliefs Through the Ages
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  Jeffro

  You know very well that our teachings are Bible -based because Bible texts are frequently cited in our literature and public preaching and teaching. The proof is in the pudding so to speak and cannot be denied.

  I am not denying that JW beliefs are based on the bible, just as every other Christian religion bases their beliefs on the bible (and just as "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" is based on the legend of King Arthur). And just as other Christian religions deviate in places from what the bible says, so does yours.
  
  And it's not "the proof is in the pudding" (which is meaningless), it's "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". Sheesh.

  You ask for veriable dates so I provide FOUR dates : 607 BCE, 539 BCE, 537 BCE and 1914 CE. How good is that ?

  You have provided four dates. I asked for verifiable dates. Of those, only 539 is verifiable, and it is established by secular historians (using methods rejected by the Watchtower Society), not by Watchtower doctrine and therefore does not fulfil the request. Since 2 of the remaining dates are dependant on the verifiabilty of 537 (in addition to other unverified claims), you need to provide proof that the Jews returned in 537 to support any claim of verifiability.

  October in 1914 saw the world caught up in World War 1 which was the direct result of Satan;s expulsion to earth and the birth of the Kingdom. It is accepted therefore gu many thinkers that this changed the world forever and was the most significant year in modern history.

  That is a woefully pitiful response. According to current JW dogma, Satan was expelled from heaven - and only then would "woe" commence - as the first part of Jesus' 'presence' which should have occurred during or after October, not before. (Though at the time they believed Armageddon would start then.) To reiterate, nothing at all happened "with great suddenness" (The Watchtower, 15 May 1911) in October of 1914. To claim that events prior to October of 1914 indicated the fulfilment invalidates the Society's claim that it was a precise number of years, and its ponderous chronology makes it impossible to move the starting point away from October. The fact that anything significant happened in the year 1914 is merely a coincidence, one that the WTS has had to doggedly cling to ever since.

  I submit the following texts to prove that the seventy years was exilic: Jeremiah 25:11; 29:10 and the book of Lamentations for starters. Wanna play?

  It has been demonstrated previously how and why the NWT rendition of Jeremiah 29:10 is invalid; other translations correctly indicate the connection of the 70 years "for" Babylon, in harmony with Jeremiah 25:11. Jeremiah 25:11 neither states nor implies anything at all about Jewish exile; verses 8-11 clearly indicate the context to apply to all of the nations in the entire region being in servitude to Babylon. The word "seventy" does not occur in the book of Lamentations. However, Lamentations 1:2 does indicate that although the people of Judah were exiled for an unstated period of time, which is not under contestation, it also states that they had to dwell among "the nations", debunking the JW claim that even Jews who fled to Egypt were taken back to Babylon.
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  Jeffro

  Your chart does help you either

  Um... thanks for noticing?

  because it is full of errors despite the fact that I liked the layout and format of data.

  My chart indicates the information as provided in the bible. Indicate anything in my chart that contradicts anything in the bible. Deviations from JW doctrine are irrelevant.

  According to your scheme you have two seventy year periods; seventy years of Babylonian domination and seventy years of denunciation whereas the Bible's clear testimony along with Josephus is that there was one definite historical period of seventy years of exile, servitude and desolation.

  According to Zechariah there was a separate period. The language he used indicates a period of denunciation that hadn't ended at the time of writing of Zechariah 7:12 (which doesn't correlate with either the period of servitude of all of the nations to Babylon, or the separate partially overlapping period of exile). Whether Josephus mentions that period is irrelevant.
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  Jeffro

  Apostates are scared of scholar because he skilfully defends WT chronology knowing full well that his apology can be helpful to those 'weak in faith', having doubt sowed in their minds by such deceivers. Scholar is helpful.

  Talking about yourself in the 3rd person certainly doesn't help what remains of your credibility. Those who you call "weak in faith" can see that a) I and others continually provide logical, verifiable refutations to your claims, and b) you demonstrate yourself to be "spiritually weak" by rejecting the Society's counsel by contributing on what they would regard as an "apostate" website. (Notwithstanding the JW pejorative usage of the term 'apostate' being inaccurate.)

  Your model is simply an interpretation biased in favour of Neo-Babylonian chronology with the illusion of being Bible-based. It simply an opinion and falls on the sword of the 'seventy years' which corrects the data by twenty years.

  You obviously don't understand the order in which I compiled the chart. Before even looking at any secular dates, I compiled all of the information that the bible provided into the chart. Only after that was complete did I source the secular dates for the Assyrian, Egyptian, Neo-Babylonian, Persian and Tyrian kings. The fact that the events of the bible in my chart harmonized with the dates from secular history was by complete coincidence, vindicating my tabulation of the divided kingship and the Neo-Babylonian period.
  
  Specifically, the following bible events fall into place in my chart: Jehoash paying tribute to Assyrian king Shamshi-Adad V in about 823 (as recorded on an Assyrian inscription); Menahem paying tribute to Pul (renamed Tiglath-pileser III when he ascended the Assyrian throne) in about 760 (2 Kings 15:19-20); exiles being taken by Tiglath-pileser III in the reign of Pekah in about 739 (2 Kings 15:29); Ahaz paying tribute to Tiglath-pileser III in about 731 (2 Kings 15:29); Hoshea conspiring with Pharaoh So (agreed by most historians to be Osorkon IV) and being imprisoned by Shalmaneser in about 726 (2 Kings 17:3,4); Assyrian king Sargon II stating “I besieged and conquered Samaria” (as recorded on an Assyrian inscription) in about 718; Manasseh paying tribute to Assyrian king Esar-Haddon (as recorded on an Assyrian inscription); Esar-Haddon invading Egypt in about 671 (Assyrian history); Manasseh paying tribute to Ashurbanipal (as recorded on an Assyrian inscription); Josiah killed by Pharaoh Necho in about 609 (2 Kings 23:29); Necho defeated by Nebuchadnezzar at Carchemish in 605 (Jeremiah 46:2). (Where I say “about” I mean to within a year.)
  
  There were only two reigns that did not fit perfectly. Assyrian king Sennacherib, whose reign appeared to begin 5 years later than the events depicted in Hezekiah’s 14th year at 2 Kings 18:13, though it is possible that the events occurred while Sennacherib was prince (as was the case with Tiglath-pileser III at 2 Kings 15:19, 20) The other discrepancy was Pharaoh Shishak’s attack on Jerusalem (suggested to be Sheshonq by historians), which was out by some 24 years, but 20 years closer than the Society’s reckoning.

  Also, it false to history as it does not accurately with the reign of Jehoiakim and his vassalage to Nebuchadnezzer amongst many other things. Be aware of scholar's maxim;

  Indicate the scriptures that back up your claim.
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  Jeffro

  Read modern history that deals with the Great War and the chronology/theology of the Gentile Times. Examine the manner yourself for it is all their before you or do I have to spoon-feed you.

  "Their before you"?
  
  Events in June 1914 triggered a war that was in full swing by August of the same year. There is no correlation with the pre-1914 JW claim that Armageddon would suddenly and unexpectedly break out in October of 1914.

  Paranoia is the trait of apostates who have nothing better to do with their time then to ridicule the Lord's people and his work. We are to busy getting onwith the job to be bothered with such nonsense.

  Stands to reason that if you kept using "their" that you'd eventually use it correctly. Remind me again why you're on this site against the direction of your alleged 'faithful slave'?

  Yes your good news is simply an agenda of doing nothing, living an empty life with no love, faith or hope like the rest of Christendom.

  What pompous judgemental crap! Here's a fact for you: you will die without any of your delusions coming to fruition.
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  aniron

  Where not the Watchtower preaching prior to 1914 that Christ had arrived in 1874 and the "anointed" had gone to heaven by 1878.

  Also that 1914 would be Armageddon and the new system would be here.

  Or was it 1915, 1918, 1925, 1942, 1975, by end of 20th century,

  How can anyone take such a False Prophet seriously?

  Check it out here

  Prophetic Speculations - What a Sad List of Embarrasing Dissappointments

  <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/139938/1.ashx>
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  emptywords

  I like scholar because he has strong faith.