A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry 110 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Terry

  I can't think of any social, political or cultural structure without some "innocent blood" concealed in the basement.

  Even the AMISH???
• 

  Terry

  Such sentiments are what Terry's stimulating and compelling posts often motivate within people.

  He often has a subtle, yet effective way of smacking us upside the head and awakening us from a harmful path.

  I am one of many who appreciate his presence here.

  j

  Don't make me come hug you!!
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  Terry

  Something smells funny.

  maybe its the potatoes rotting and losing weight

  You made me laugh! That is a very "inside baseball" reference!
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  Insomniac

  Thank you for the fascinating lesson in etymology. It entirely makes up for the denigration of my faith.
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  Hortensia

  Child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure. But, when Jehovah proposes child sacrifice (His own son) to save mankind to appease (gulp!) HIMSELF; isn't this the same plan? I have never heard it put so succinctly - I have long thought that a religion based on an egotistical god who kills his own son to make a point is a crazy religion.
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  writetoknow

  Most gods in the history of man have been cruel and and renown for shedding blood so which god/god's are you talking about in paganism? You seemed focus on God cruelty not mans or any other diety. I think the point was how proud and how much better paganism is then being a Christian or a beliver in Job's God.

  If anyone should have been bitter about bad treatment by God you would think Job and Christ would have become converted pagans. However, I think both of them were more concern with trying to be faithful during their trials to God and they seem to understand after the fact what was happening. And David of course seem to be full of joy because of his many trials. People serving their country losing limb and sutaining injury think its a worth cause. Some don't but does that nullify the sacarfice of those that gave their lives for a cause?

  There nothing stange about people serving a greater cause then themselves or being tested for doing so. It like saying my country wanted me torture by the emeny they really hate me so that the reason they let it happen. Oh yes I forgot God is all controlling so he should make people do the right thing. He should force people to stop there bad habits he should force people to obey His rules, He should kill anyone the minute they make a choice for themselves He dosen't like or He isn't love. He should not expect any loyalty from His creation. He should let us run our own life or He is a cruel dictator. I mean lets get real.

  Man is must be nice to have a punch bag for all of our hates. The defination of Love would be agree with me on every subject don't expect anything and let me have whatever I want when I want it.

  And there are many modern day examples of people going through trials that don't hate God.

  So my point is really simple everyone can do it better and everyone has the answers to all mans problems and everyone can tell God how to run things I don't care if your a pagan a Christian or any of the other of the thousands of faiths/religion on earth. And the history of the human race stands loud and clear man loves shedding blood and the gods they worship enjoy love it also.
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  Insomniac

  Please re-read my original post, writetoknow. My point, which I thought I had expressed quite clearly, was that my religion (Paganism, which is properly capitalized just like the name of any other religion) was referred to in a highly disrespectful manner. If we were to substitute "Jews" or "Buddhists" or "women" or "Italians" for the word "Pagan" in the first post on this thread, do you think any members of those groups would have appreciated it, or allowed it to pass without comment?

  I mentioned two of the more shocking stories found in the Bible to illustrate the fact that Christianity has its "brutal" aspects that can be very puzzling to non-Christians, yet we're expected to accord your faith a respect you refuse to show us. I lived my life as a Christian for 30 years, and I continue to have a deep respect for those who follow that path. However, this respect is too often one-sided. All I ask is that the name-calling and insults stop. Fair enough?
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  fifi40

  Insomniac................I think if you re read Terry's original post you will see that he is speaking historically...........and history speaks for itself!
• 

  seesthesky

  "Child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure. But, when Jehovah proposes child sacrifice (His own son) to save mankind to appease (gulp!) HIMSELF; isn't this the same plan?"
  
  It is not the same.
  
  First, the Almighty did not sacrifice his son so some crops would grow.
  
  Second, when humans sacrifice other humans they cannot raise them from the dead - this fact, as you apparently understand, changes the meaning of the sacrifice - as someone here (perhaps you) noted, raising the sacrifice from the dead seems to lessen the gravity of the sacrifice - in my mind, however, I think YHWH's ability to give life means that something other than the loss of his son was at stake in the sacrifice - i think what was at stake was similar to what was at stake in Job's case -
  
  in the case of Job, YHWH had faith in Job, that Job would never curse him but, because YHWH allows us to live freely - to make ultimate choices with how we choose to live - YHWH subjected himself to potential failure - Job could have cursed YHWH which would have meant that YHWH erred - with respect to his son, YHWH again put at risk his Godship, he believed in his son, that his son would "downgrade" himself to a human then as a human undergo his own torture and death on behalf of the very people who tortured and killed him - YHWH believed this but his son did not have to do what YHWH believed - he could have turned his back on his father and humanity - he did not -
  
  Third, the sacrifice of Jesus was an inversion of human sacrifices to gods - when humans sacrifice each other to their gods they, the humans, stand as the inferior beings feeding themselves to superior beings - YHWH's sacrifice was the opposite - it was the Almighty, THE GOD, the most powerful and eternal consciousness and creator of all things, giving to inferior and defective beings his perfect son so as to provide a remedy for sin -
  
  So, whether you believe in YHWH or not, the sacrifice of Jesus, as set forth in the Bible, is quite unlike humans sacrificing each other for good crops.
• 

  Narkissos

  Terry,

  Any society, no matter how apparently "peaceful," rests on an economy of violence. Actual violence in the public space is only controlled inasmuch as it is mediatised by symbols -- that's what the law is about. But the law couldn't be enforced without a concentration of potential violence on visible strategic spots (police, army, prisons, etc.). Hence civilisation always involves both a displacement and a symbolisation of violence. Most "non-violent" communities only externalise violence to a wider community (which doesn't mean that they are not symbolically important to the wider community, to the contrary: they keep on expressing that violence although necessary is not satisfying).

  On top of that, every living society is made of survivors who have to relate to the dead -- founding fathers, heroes, martyrs or mere victims (etymologically a sacrificial word btw), the living objectively yet undistinctly owe them much, which must be symbolically expressed as well. The symbol concentrates the "tribute" on a definite spot, both in space (a temple, a church, a graveyard or a memorial) and time (memorial days, anniversaries), which prevents the shade of death from covering the rest of life.

  If the old God-Man Passion show has worn out, there must always be something else going on another stage of the "theatre of cruelty".