To not forgive is to remain stuck in the story which would "require" it, to remain imprisoned by some past action. True forgiveness is the release of the story's impact on how life is consquently lived and experienced. If it is done because it's expected/required by a religion it will not have that freeing quality. True forgiveness is not done with an attitude which sanctions continued behavior which prompted your act of forgiveness.
DOES FORGIVENESS MAKE ANY SENSE?
by Terry 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Sad emo
Hi Terry
Scully must have posted while I was typing my reply yesterday, I didn't get chance to come back until now but what she wrote is basically the angle I approach forgiveness - that's what I meant when I said it's more about a decision/attitude of my mind. I sorta hoped that would have been plain by my question of 'do I choose to let the anger go or do I sit and stew in it?' Sorry if I wasn't too clear
I'm totally in agreement that forgiving just to be nice is wrong.
Be assured that not every Christian denomination/church teaches that either - the ones that do, I would steer well clear of because the chances are that they'll have more pretty unhealthy teachings too!!
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Sad emo
poppers too!
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Elsewhere
Forgiveness and criminal clemency are very useful at preventing organized underground movements.
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R.Crusoe
The Dali Lama is alleged to have said,
'My greatest fear is that I may lose compassion for those casting my people from their homeland!'
On responding to how he felt about Tibetans being turfed out of Tibet.
The alternatives are war till death for the weakest combatants.
These are two sides of the coin.
Legal justice leans heavily on the carefully written word, as do religions, in resolving disputes which serve ultimately to protect those issuing the written words along with those who support them.
Altruistic justice does not exist except in the minds and hearts of individuals. And Buddhism seeks forgiveness as the ultimate justice!
For example, if we in the west were to take up the gauntlet of fairness and justice, we may consider it only right and proper to hand powers back to indigenous peoples whom have had their homelands taken from them by invaders from other continents over the past few centuries.
That's the sort of thing we'd be getting into - along with writing off all third world debts for selling their people and stifling their economic growth!
Somehow I don't see this happening and so the 'individual' will continue to be the 'media scapegoat' as a distraction from the major issues which justice only pretends to address otherwise it would end up overthrowing itself - if you catch my drift. So the meeting out of justice is illusory and pertaining to present systems of power!
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RollerDave
This all makes perfect sense in a world where the cost/benefit analysis is the only measure of things, but I do not believe we live in such a world.
I forgive. I have to.
If I didn't things would eat me up inside like a cancer, and I would kill someone in revenge.
Ok, the ransom and reconciliation; how does it make sense?
Well, Jesus LET HIMSELF be used in this way, he had a right to life he chose not to use for himself, put to purchase us. If you look at it from the perspective of God did this to Jesus, you don't get it. Jesus let it happen.
This one point invalidates any comparison to 'child sacrifice' because the child in question had no more right to life than anyone else and is not given any option it's just thrown to Molech.
So now we are supposed to forgive, but does this mean tho old saw 'forgive and forget'? I know we are supposed to 'love our neighbor' and 'love doesn't keep account of the injury'
So when Brother Pervo performs the 'laying on of the hands' on poor Little Suzie should we just say, 'Brother Pervo, we forgive you, you can pick her up next week same time?'
Nothing exisits in a vacuum, and forgiveness is no different.
We also have a duty to protect our little ones and ourselves, and to submit to Caesar's laws.
So we report Brother Pervo to the proper authorities, because it's the right thing to do, he goes to jail, and we forgive him in our hearts so we can go on with life and not be among the walking wounded.
Not exactly 'forgive and forget.'
A real life example. My home invasion.
I was mad. very mad. mad enough to kill the fellow. But I have certainly done worse thing than this fellow was trying to do to me, and I don't think there should be a death penalty for being young, or a scumbag, so I remind myself that Jesus died as much for the scumbag as he did for me and let him go in an unkilled state. If he's made me, I'd have killed him and still slept well at night.
I survived my life and grew up, agape means he ought to have that chance if I have an option to let him. Forgiveness means recognizing we are both broken and that this is really nothing cosmic.
I certainly upped my security, made a police report, I'm not making it easy for him to come back here and hurt me or mine, but another part of my thinking is, if this fellow is going to ruin his life, it won't be on MY property. I won't let that happen. I had a chance to grow out of being an assheaded thug, I hope he does too.
So here I sit in a fortress worrying about the fellow who invaded it. Forgiveness.
As a christian, it's what I do, who I am, and nobody can take that away from me. If I HAVE TO kill the sonofabitch, I will, but I forgive him for forcing the issue just the same. Otherwise, I would find it hard to sleep at night and I sleep very well, thank you.
As always, your mileage may vary, void where prohibited by law or common decency, please keep your head and arms completely inside this post until it comes to a complete stop, results are not typical.
Roller (of the 'it makes sense to me' sheep class)
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sammielee24
Forced to deal with some horrendous assaults on me during my life, I asked myself about the rationale of forgiveness. I've come to the conclusion that forgiving someone is not necessary in order to move on with life. I believe that we must accept events that have happend in our life and put those events into a simplistic context that fits for us and then move on. For example - being raped. Do I need to forgive the rapist? No and why should I? The violence perpetrated onto a person remains just one moment and memory in time - it's how we deal with it that counts and that will shape our lives. If we allow it to fester it will - accept that it happened, learn from it if we can, heal however we need to but always keep our eye on the bigger picture of life. But forgive? Why? I can't give a solid reasoning for the act of forgiveness on a blanket scale. Forgiveness doesn't make someone a better person or a more moral one. sammieswife.
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trevor
If someone breaks the law then the law enforcement agencies are paid to deal with the crime. They will often act in a rather weak and ineffective way but they are all we have, unless we put ourselves outside the law. Law breakers should be punished but there are many other wrongs that are committed that are not covered by law.
In such cases involving personal situations, forgiveness is not a word that exists in my vocabulary.
I ACCEPT and move on. This does not mean condolence but the realization that holding onto grievances that will never be resolved is unhealthy.
Hoping for justice, vengance, fairness is a pipe dream. Reality is harsh and life is what it is and life is too short to waste time seeking closure on past wrongs.
ACCEPTACE and the ability to move on are the qualities found in a survivor.
Most people's emotional problems stem from their inability to ACCEPT WHAT HAS HAPPENED, wipe the slate clean and MOVE ON.
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RAF
it has to be based on justice ?
But who said for instance in the bible that it haven't to be based on justice ? ... Justice for ourselve actually as a victime (like not putting any energy in hating someone and also alow you to be more objective about a situation = what is important and what is not ?) ... That's a way to lead to inner balance ...
It have a spiritual meaning ... You are talking as if the same action always gives you the same reaction (which is not true) it all depends on so many things/circumpstances (who/when/why/ ...) ... So it is not because you forgive someone that he/she automatically is going to do the same or bader ... Sur he can ... but nobody says that you have to stay in anybody's hand to be hurted ... and who knows he/she could grow up (at the end) but this doesn't really depends on the victime.
So as most people said here about forgiveness (to me) the biblical educativ sens of forgiveness is more about balance actually (in the most global sens) it doesn't mean you won't have to pay a bill (since everybody concerned have to deal with consequences) forgiveness in this process is not for nor against the offender but for victime (a way for him/her to keep the control of his/her energy = his/her balance).