DOES FORGIVENESS MAKE ANY SENSE? (page 3)

codeblue

I agree with Scully's comment about forgiveness.

The victim only does this to "move on" and be a survivor. It does't lessen the perpetrator's actions or give them license to do it again.

bebu

You are right! No, forgiveness does not make any rational 'sense'. Love is pretty irrational when you finally get to the bottom of it. And forgiveness is one side of the gold coin of love.

You break it; you buy it.

Well, and that was the ground rules in the OT. And interesting that mankind generally feels that debt everywhere in the world, as you said.

All through mankind's history primitive and irrational people have offered innocent lives and other offerings to appease the wrath of deities who may have been offended by man's unwitting actions.

If they were unwitting, they were not truly sins. Unwitting actions need mostly to be excused, not forgiven.

Usually, in the case of the courts, the question of "intentionality" enters the consideration.

Likewise, courts take into consideration the question of "remorse". Why take anything into consideration if the whole black and white issue is only Pottery Barn's

You break it; you buy it. --?

An applied question for the board would be: Can I forgive the WTS' GB (or elders XYZ) for their present, deliberate evil policies which have affected me?

Forgiveness, as I see it, would take the form of praying for their hearts to be so pierced with sorrow and remorse, so as to become humble. They should still have to be held accountable for their actions, perhaps, but they could bear those consequences, knowing that justice is served without having hatred of them as persons.

bebu

That's my quick 2 cents; I've got to dash.

bebu

sammielee24

An applied question for the board would be: Can I forgive the WTS' GB (or elders XYZ) for their present, deliberate evil policies which have affected me?

Short answer - No.

Why would I? Why should I? We can acknowledge that they are brainwashed. We must accept those moments that were and actions that were applied by us/to us while inside the organization but there is no need to forgive? There is not one JW who would even wish forgiveness from any worldly person, including their own family, so the emotion itself would be wasted in that regard. Acknowledge; Accept; Move Forward. sammieswife.

SPAZnik

Yes. What Scully said.

eclipse

here's my two cents

If I mess up and I sincerely am feeling bad and deep regret, I ask for forgiveness, & I hope that I am forgiven...

If anyone messes up and does the above, and shows by their sincere words that they are sorry and regretful, I readily forgive them.

It is the perpetrator who does not acknowledge that they did anything wrong - who does not deserve forgiveness.

I dont feel the need to forgive them for the sake of letting go either...if they hurt me and they dont feel bad about it,

(I hope I can punch them in the face just once- that would go a long way to making me feel better)

I'll let them know what I think of their cowardess, and they will never get another chance to hurt me or my loved ones again...

BUT if they tried to hurt me, or my loved ones AGAIN, they are going to get it.

SPAZnik

"....the 'individual' will continue to be the 'media scapegoat' as a distraction from the major issues which justice only pretends to address otherwise it would end up overthrowing itself...."

Interesting comments R.Crusoe.

JamesThomas

Does it make sense to poison my mind and body day after day with the toxin of animosity and irritation because of a deed long past?

Or might cessation of resentment (forgiveness) be a healthy and rational thing? Even if we call it a "square circle", or a bag of fish, so what.

This does not address the retributions and deterrents required to sustain a healthy society; but neither does it negate a sensible and valid reason for forgiveness.

j

Terry

Well, Jesus LET HIMSELF be used in this way, he had a right to life he chose not to use for himself, put to purchase us. If you look at it from the perspective of God did this to Jesus, you don't get it. Jesus let it happen.

I think Jesus got a pretty sweet deal.

For one thing; stop and think for a minute. Jesus is a rich kid whose dad is a multibillionaire entrepreneur. Kids like that are almost universally hated from the getgo. However, Jesus found a way to turn his privileged upbringing into a non-issue by converting himself into a victim!

He suffered for the poor unfortunates and pulled off a kind of fabulous David Copperfield illusion of dying/coming back to life.

Don't forget he takes all the bows on his way to heaven.

What does he get when he goes home to Big Daddy in the sky?

The whole works! He even gets US! From a spoiled brat in heaven to the King of the Universe is quite an accomplishment.

And, all the while we applaud the little rich kid. Smart. Very very smart.

Terry

Does it make sense to poison my mind and body day after day with the toxin of animosity and irritation because of a deed long past?
Or might cessation of resentment (forgiveness) be a healthy and rational thing? Even if we call it a "square circle", or a bag of fish, so what.
This does not address the retributions and deterrents required to sustain a healthy society; but neither does it negate a sensible and valid reason for forgiveness.

I would separate forgiveness from resentment altogether.

For one's own sake it is better to measure how much liklihood there is of taking action to bring a criminal or offender to just desserts. If it is impossible; let go of the rage and move on. However, forgiveness is not necessary to do that. You do as much as you can feasibly do to close the circle of justice. Beyond that you cannot do anything.

To forgive is to PARDON. In other words, when you forgive you let the offender off Scot Free!

If you think that helps anything I would argue with you. Getting away with something is the worst message you can give to a person of such shrunken beingness that they are able to act sadistically with impunity.

Rethink this. I know you'll see it otherwise.

Quentin

There have been several things during my life that have been done to me and my family...I will never forgive under any circumstance those that did it. Forgivness is not important...getting on with your life is, that's what I concentrate on, keeps resentment restrained. There are some things done to a person that will not heal...in those situations forgiveness is lame, it has no value...

Outside of that you can blow it off...lot of ignorant people out there that can be pietied...rising above others stupdity makes more sense that forgiveness....

DOES FORGIVENESS MAKE ANY SENSE?

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