Great post, great article. I am a spiritual secular humanist myself. I don't believe there is such a thing as faith as defined by traditional Christian terms. I believe that spirit and nature are one. There is no "OTHER" realm that we have evidence of. People who claim to have gone there are quacks and nut jobs. There is but one realm, the ferequency of which may be expanded upon, but never does it equal a supernatural realm. It may be a higher frequency that we cannot fully read or see.
Spirituality without Faith- Is It Possible?
by nvrgnbk 77 Replies latest jw friends
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fifi40
I think the main problem with some of Terry's posts is ...................................he needs a girlfriend
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fifi40
Hey you know I am only kidding.............................right
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JamesThomas
RAF, thank you; you're very sweet; and like I told you before, you keep this up and I'm taking the next train to France.
Open Mind, actually, far more than not, I am in agreement with what Terry says. He eloquently shows us how much BS our belief structures can be. Perhaps, I just take it one step further, is all.
It almost sounded like we need to "respect God" only you used the word "infinite".
Probably what I was trying to say was something along these lines:
Generally there is an identity with the phenominal level of thoughts, emotions, sensations and experiences; and in this unquestioned identification there is seemingly a very real and concrete confinement to a pod: a separate and individual sense of "me" somehow cut off from all the rest of existence. Yet, during all this, there is the endless-ness, a boundless vastness, an INFINITY of being/existence in and around the sense of small "self". What appear to be walls and boundaries which separate the little "self" from infinity -- are they real, or illusion? Certainly there appears to be identifiable separate forms walking around, but is this really the beginning and end of what the genuine "I" is?
What if there are no walls, no valid separation from: anything and everything? Perhaps seeing that the walls are unreal, reveals our true nature, our true Self, which is one in the same for all existence. Without definable walls how can you be defined and individualized? You can't, really. You are everything, but no particular thing. Which does not mean that the phenominal level of endless forms is less beautiful and interesting...for without definable walls, you are this too.
All I have ever really said is that we investigate openly, honestly and thoroughly into the ideas and concepts of "self", and then look into that which is looking, that which is undeniably real and true. That which is most close.
So, it's not about some image or concept called "God". But rather about that which is seeing these words.
What is true? I can't say. It doesn't matter what I see. Find out for yourself. Observe, examine and investigate into the most intimate beliefs and senses of "self", and see if there is a you that can be found as a real and valid isolated thing. Are you really the shard of existence that is believed to be?
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Terry
Dolls are gateway gods to heavier religions. It's best to avoid them. :D
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Terry
In a sense there is nothing more to a human face than a particular configuration of forms and colours. And in another sense there is infinitely more than that because we make it so. How much of human relationships consists, precisely, in making a sort of "doll" or "teddy bear" out of someone else? And endlessly tearing down and reconstructing a similar image, as interaction goes?
.....but, it IS useful to know the difference between a doll and a person. Or, is that too negative for you?
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Terry
But it was his spirituality that served as a motivation, even if he lacked the faith in religion.
I am still reading it, but I thought this point of his life meshed quite nicely with the discussionOh, dear! Quote shopping!
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Terry
For instance : is death the worst thing that can happen to somebody? I guess not since some people wants to die ... but would they want to die if they would be able to transcend what makes them want to die?
Yes, you've clearly given the best possible example of insanity!
Without life there can be no values possible.
By blurring the distinction between life and death in positing a greater (transcendant) life, death becomes a VIRTUE!
Insanity is insanity no matter what you call the resulting martyrdom and oblivion.
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Terry
The more people use to play "small bets" because they statistically "work best" the better "long shots" statistically pay off for the marginal gambler.
Life and death=zero sum "game". Statistically to "win" you have to be alive. Spirituality, religion, superstition are the long shots that use up your time (i.e. your actual life) in trying to win something "better" in the first place.
If people would learn to live the life they have by using their actual time on actual living in the actual real world the quality of life would almost magically increase many fold.
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Terry
If I'm getting the gist of Terry's worldview, going with "feelings" or "experiencing the now" or anything like that is just another exercise in self-delusion.
Am I over-simplifying, Terry? I apologize in advance for presuming to put words in your mouth.
That which IS simply IS.
Consciousness, at the very highest and most precise level, distinguishes one IS from another IS. But, for what reason?
Read on.
Man is a natural creature firmly embedded in the natural world. All the "laws" of nature affect and effect man.
To survive, build, increase, thrive---man must learn how to use the natural world to his own advantage.
Higher consciousness gives him the tools to do so.
Man doesn't jump off a high cliff. Man doesn't eat yellow snow. Man knows when to plant and when to harvest. Man knows how to build tools. Man learns what germs are and how to avoid being made sick by them. Etc. Etc.
How does man know these things? By separating one "is" from another "is" into conceptual folders and attaching a "value" to them (Good/Bad/better/best).
When we start positing values to things which are imaginary (gods, devils, supernatural forces) our reaction emotionally is deuces wild.
We stop merely living on the real planet Earth. We imagine a world beset by invisible spirits and Supreme Intelligences we must pacify, serve, placate and avoid pissing off.
In other words, our "spiritual side" creates categories which don't exist and we use up our clock (lifetime) in meaningless rituals dealing with non-existent nothings. The non-IS.
Faith is always trumped by knowledge for this reason. Faith is a gamble and a waste of the short life you really have. It is a poor bet to waste time on winning an imaginary lottery.