Spirituality without Faith- Is It Possible? (page 4)

Terry

I think eclipse said it right, and I think Narkissos often alludes to the same, that we perhaps are getting bogged down in semantics

It is certainly through semantics we place before our mind objects (metaphors, really) for scrutiny, analysis and dissection.

However, here is the rub: WE STUMBLE over the ineptitude of our language constantly.

The more precise our vocabulary; the more precision we have in thinking itself.

Taking great care to define the words we use and keep them devoid of stumbling blocks of METAPHOR will go a long way toward actually knowing what we think we know and identifying what was feel.

GOD is a huge metaphor.

SPIRITUALITY is nerve-endings without referent given a superstitious metaphorical "identity".

Our grey, sqiggly skull meat only functions well when we take great pains to wean it off easy metaphors and lazy semantics.

eclipse

Terry, I apologise for being inept in expressing myself,

(even if you were not directing your comment at me per se, I will apply it to myself)

it is true that I stumble over words in trying to describe something that is not easy to describe.

I do not believe in a god creature.

It's ok if our definitions of spirituality are different.

I actually agree with all of what you said, I just think that appreciating life is being spiritual, that's all.

I do not ascribe those feelings to some unknown entity outside of myself. I just appreciate beauty and nature, and define that as being spiritual.

Is my definition incorrect? maybe.

I really like how you think, and it makes me wonder how you were ever a JW in the first place, LOL!

nvrgnbk

I see we do agree very much on this point, eclipse.

All hail Satan! LOL!

For Terry:

The "willy nilly" comes into play when one gives control to or expects action from(in lieu of one taking action) the "thing" being appreciated or admired.

Or when one gives up in their attempt to understand reality.

To separate feelings or emotions from the human experience is neither realistic nor desirable.

IMHO.

Terry

or Terry:
The "willy nilly" comes into play when one gives control to or expects action from(in lieu of one taking action) the "thing" being appreciated or admired.
Or when one gives up in their attempt to understand reality.
To separate feelings or emotions from the human experience is neither realistic nor desirable.

To separate feelings or emotions from the human experience is not my point.

IDENTIFYING the source of feelings or emotions is essential for rational thought.

Example:

A little girl is given an inert OBJECT. It is inorganic. The little girl puts clothes on it, talks to it, has conversations with it, names it and LOVES it. It is a doll.

What is happening intellectually, rationally, scientifically?

To put it in an ugly way: A LITTLE GIRL ATTACHES CONCEPTUAL SIGNIFICANCE to an OBJECT and forms a DELUSIONAL relationship with it AS THOUGH it were alive and can meaningfully interact with her!!

The little girl does this and we all encourage it and it proves useful later on when she is a mother.

I use this example because it is scary on another level!

Our conscious reality is largely dictated by how we choose to VIEW things conceptually.

Once we make the decision to TREAT an OBJECT as conscious, organic, intelligence we fall into an EMOTIONAL BARGAIN with our own imagination!

Having said all that I am now saying this to you:

SPIRITUALITY is a BARGAIN with your own imagination in which you are making a doll of emotional phenonmena. Put a dress on it, talk with it, pray to it, give it reverence, commune with it, name it and fall in love with it as you like. But--you are delusional while doing so!!

nvrgnbk

But I'm not frikkin praying dude!

LMAO!

It's cool Terry.

I love you man.

Later,

Nate

Paralipomenon

Dolls are gateway gods to heavier religions. It's best to avoid them. :D

nvrgnbk

Dolls are gateway gods to heavier religions. It's best to avoid them. :D

Now that's funny, Para!

Terry does seem to be talking alot about dolls lately.

Perhaps some sort of intervention is in order?

Narkissos

Funny, I too was thinking of the role of ignorance in the kind of "spirituality" that I prefer to call "faith". Only I was construing it positively, contrary to Terry.

There is a type of knowledge -- technical knowledge of "how it is made up" and "how it works" maybe -- that must be switched off or at least recede into the background for another kind of knowledge -- that which produces awe and wonder that "it" is -- to (re-)emerge. Just as the astrophysicist may surpass what he has learnt and found to gaze at the stars with a child's eyes, again.

In a sense there is nothing more to a human face than a particular configuration of forms and colours. And in another sense there is infinitely more than that because we make it so. How much of human relationships consists, precisely, in making a sort of "doll" or "teddy bear" out of someone else? And endlessly tearing down and reconstructing a similar image, as interaction goes?

nvrgnbk

Only I was construing it positively, contrary to Terry.

I love this place.

Spirituality without Faith- Is It Possible?

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