I am currently reading the biography of Albert Einstein.
His family was Jewish, but they didn't practice the Jewish faith. His father referred to it as a centuries old archaic way of life. Nevertheless Einstein thought there was merit for it and in his youth practiced orthodox Judaism.
Later, when he renounced his Germanic citizenship, he also renounced his religion as well, allbeit quieter. But he remained spiritual. He insisted that there was a natural order to things that were unseen.
His research and breakthroughs were attempts at trying to unearth the natural order of the universe. He never succeeded.
But it was his spirituality that served as a motivation, even if he lacked the faith in religion.
I am still reading it, but I thought this point of his life meshed quite nicely with the discussion.
Spirituality without Faith- Is It Possible?
by nvrgnbk 77 Replies latest jw friends
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Paralipomenon
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RAF
said in different ways here : Semantics can bog us down
But that's what transcending is all about it's not about what you see (cause the tiniest can be the greatest for instance) it's about what we are able to feel without taking ourself too much into consideration (Ego and personnal needs) to be able to appreciate and evaluate the value of everything as a whole
For instance : is death the worst thing that can happen to somebody? I guess not since some people wants to die ... but would they want to die if they would be able to transcend what makes them want to die?
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Open mind
Terry:
However, here is the rub: WE STUMBLE over the ineptitude of our language constantly.
Soooo many threads get tangled up and go nowhere because of this. I applaud you Terry, for stating your thoughts so very cogently. If you're completely right on this, I'm still clinging (just a little) to my spirituality doll. And, BTW, I'm just beginning to be able to put my thoughts into words. I see myself as an onlooker, watching the "Clash of the Titans".
Which brings me to this question: Where's James Thomas when I need him?
Seriously, Terry. Have you already gone down a thread like this with James? If so, please give me a link. If not, then: "I HEREBY SUMMON THE SPIRIT OF JAMES THOMAS TO SHOW HIMSELF!"
I know it's chicken $hit of me to not fight my own battles, but I think I'm just being honest by saying I'm not in the same league as you guys (yet).
Open (as always) Mind
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the dreamer dreaming
spirituality from the latin - to be full of breath or hot air....
faith - a gamble on a long shot which has no evidence for reality, something con artists require you to have to make their con work.
every move is a gamble to some degree and long shots do, on rare occasions pay off...but in the game of life small bets on gambles with betters odds seem to work best.
science is the best odds maker mankind has ever developed.
religion is the best con games men have employed to fleece and slaughter sheep....something all good shepherds do.
Skepticism, honesty Agnosticism, and Guts.... a good SHAG has harmed far fewer than anything else I know of....
never heard of an agnostic holy war yet
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Narkissos
every move is a gamble to some degree and long shots do, on rare occasions pay off...but in the game of life small bets on gambles with betters odds seem to work best.
The more people use to play "small bets" because they statistically "work best" the better "long shots" statistically pay off for the marginal gambler.
never heard of an agnostic holy war yet
What about the wars for "enlightenment," "democracy" or "human rights" -- which have replaced religion in Western war propaganda since the late 18th century?
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JamesThomas
Open Mind:
I'm still clinging (just a little) to my spirituality doll.
I hope Terry and Narkissos, cut your little doll to pieces.
Rather than give you some more conceptual baggage to carry around, I suggest simply letting go of your doll. Let go of everything which can be let go of...and see what remains.
What witnesses experiences, be the they "spiritual" or other wise?
What beholds all the concepts and opinions in this and every other thread?
What quietly sees all the products of the mind, emotions and senses?
When the individual "me" that desires its cherished beliefs, judgments and appraisals to be heard and valued by others -- is seen as only a house of cards built of the beloved concepts, what sees that?
What is closer than all words, emotions, thoughts and experiences?
What am "I", genuinely, authentically and truly?
What is REAL?
j
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Paralipomenon
Let go of everything which can be let go of...and see what remains.
I think I soiled myself...
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RAF
James Thomas ... that's for you (it's all about the tittle since I don't really know you yet )
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=YUMsCOd2F44Music is good for the spirit anyway ... so I'm not totally off topic here, Am I? oh well
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Open mind
James, thanks for showing up.
I'm perceiving that you and Terry aren't exactly on the same page and is the main reason I "summoned" you. (Tee hee.)
At a "gut" level, what I've read from you feels right to me. I've also VERY much enjoyed meditating over the last few weeks. And, I'm sure I'm just dipping my toe in the "cool, refreshing waters of consciousness" that you regularly go skinny dipping in.
Now, what would Terry say about my comments just now? I'll take a stab at it and hope he comes along to neaten things up. If I'm getting the gist of Terry's worldview, going with "feelings" or "experiencing the now" or anything like that is just another exercise in self-delusion.
Am I over-simplifying, Terry? I apologize in advance for presuming to put words in your mouth.
BTW, James I've been meaning to ask you a related question, so I'll do it here. Not long ago you made a comment (I'll dig it up if you want) saying something along the lines of "respecting the Inifinite". Do you remember this? It almost sounded like we need to "respect God" only you used the word "infinite". I doubt that's exactly what you meant, but I would like clarification if you feel like providing it. Any comments on this?
Finally, I'd like to add that I highly respect both James and Terry. I'm not maliciously trying to start a "flame war" or anything like that. I love to see ideas batted around, particularly by people who are better at it than myself.
Respectfully,
Open Mind