IS IT FAIR TO PAY THE SAME DEBT TWICE?? Divine Justice... (page 3)

John Doe

Aren't you assuming that Adam's death paid the price? Is the assumption in correlation with Christian teachings?

Our creator is a god of laws. Just look at the natural laws in the universe and you will see this. In dealing with humans which he made in his own image, his law was basic: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."--Ex. 1-23-25

"...and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense or reward."--Heb 2:2b and Rev. 13:10

Some substance totally foreign (not of the same kind) to the pure blood was introduced into Man's body and it was this that brought death to mankind for it was passed down through the blood. God's LAW requires BLOOD in the redemption plan.

Awakened07

Where does is say "Adam and Eve were created perfect?"

- I actually don't think the creation story says so in so many words. It has been "extrapolated" from the fact that they were said to have been created in God's image, that God "saw that it was good", and that in the promised future paradise which is a 'continuation' of the first paradise, mankind will be free of diseases and sorrow and the like. And so this was likely the case with Adam and Eve as well. Or so the story goes.

nvrgnbk

What is the mechanism for the passing on of this inherent nature?

Exactly!

What was the physiological transformation that occurred as a result of sin?

As I remember it, it was like unplugging a fan from an electrical outlet.

LMAO!

I am embarrassed that I used to believe that.

JCanon

Where does INHERITED SIN become JUSTICE?

Good question. But actually, from the Biblical point of view, the moment Adam sinned is when he died and that's when all his unborn children died too.

So let's flashback to Eden and what God could have done. Adam sinned. He could have been put to death, along with Eve. God would have executed Satan as well. Then he'd just make a brand new couple, and start over. Is that justice? YES.

But God didn't do that. Because if he had, technically when Adam died, then the several billion of his children would have died as well and all those potential people from Adam's DNA would never have been born. God could see into the future and see all those potential people. Abraham, Daniel, Moses, Ricky Martin, Goldie Hawn and Brad Pitt! What a LOSS. What a shame these people would never be born, right?

Well! How to save them? How to get them from under this horrible predicament so that JUSTICE is served but somehow the unborn children would have a chance at life.

I KNOW! The Ransome Sacrifice! What is Adam's children were adopted by someone who gave up his right to have children and they were adopted? Then that would remove Adam's curse of death on them. Okay. That works! They can get a second chance by adoption.

But that would require the death of a righteous man. He'd have to give up his perfect human life on behalf of mankind, and then give up that perfect body as a sacrifice, never to be taken up again. Okay, great. A second chance.

LOGISTICS: But how? Well, in order to do that, it's the logistics of allowing enough time for as many of Adam's children to be born as possible, say over close to 6000 years. They would all be born but would be born in imperfect bodies and eventually die. No problem. Because on Judgment Day they would all be brought back, judged righteous or unrighteous based upon what they did with their short temporary life, and then those who deserve life will be granted it! So JUSTICE would be served, but also a second chance.

But, in order to get the second-chance life, one must be born and then die, except those who are alive whenJudgment Day begins, of course. So that death they die is really not a penalty they are paying. It's just the fact that they do not have the physical ability to live past old age due to imperfection.

The fact that this is not a "judgment" death, is proven because some who die, who did horrible things or rejected Jesus, for instance, will come back on Judgment Day, just to see what they missed, have their life reviewed and will then be thrown into the lake of fire to experience a permanent death, called "the second death." So did their initial death erase their sins from their lives? No. Those sins will be held against them, and they will die by those sins. If they are righteous, they will live. I don't mean minor sins of imperfection, but serious sins of choice. That's why there will be human judges to draw the line.

So don't think of death as paying twice, because it really isn't, since all these people will come back on Judgment Day. Further it is necessary to be born in sin and imperfection to have a second chance. That's the only way to save Adam's children. Now, we can't find fault with God for this arrangement, since the alternative is that you and Goldie Hawn never would have been born. Now which do you prefer? God's arrangement where at least you have a second chance? Or never to have been born along with all the amazing people throughout time who are the childen of Adam?

Now it was a high price to pay, Jesus having to die and all, and all the confusion and fuss involving Satan and getting him put out of his misery permanently and all, but in the end all will be well and the universe will be a far better place than before, being without wickedness and those who inspire wickedness, like Satan. It's a high price but God considers it worth it. He would prefer that YOU had a second chance, whether than being snuffed out without a chance of life in Eden as Satan planned for YOU.

JCanon

Hortensia

I always wondered about that too. Simple answer: no such thing as god, jesus, adam, eve, satan, or any of the personae dramatis of the old testament or new testament. Well, maybe some of them were historical, but precious few. It's all a myth.

Finally-Free

I was first a Catholic and later a JW. Neither religion could give me a satisfactory explanation for the whole thing.

Adam and Eve sinned because they ate some fruit. They were sentenced to death for eating this fruit, but that wasn't enough. Instead of carrying out the death sentence quickly, they were allowed to live long enough to have children. We were taught that this was a "loving" provision from Jehovah. This "loving provision" results in all children and future offspring for the next few milleniums in having the same death sentence - all because two of their ancestors ate some fruit. All the problems and atrocities in human history can be traced back to the alleged eating of some fruit, from the influenza to the holocaust to Rwanda to my speeding ticket I got a few months ago. Jesus allegedly came to die for this "sin", to save all mankind from the bad effects of Adam and Eve eating fruit. In spite of Jesus' alleged death and resurrection, people still suffer, die, and get speeding tickets. Apparently, Jehovah places a higher value on this fruit than he does on billions of human lives, even that of his own son.

If I demanded the death of all mankind because someone scratched my new truck in the parking lot people would call me wacko and have me instatutionalized, but when someone invisible does the same thing people worship him.

Yup, makes sense to me.

W

IS IT FAIR TO PAY THE SAME DEBT TWICE?? Divine Justice...

John Doe

journey-on

Awakened07

nvrgnbk

JCanon

Hortensia

Finally-Free

changeling

changeling

watson

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