Some of us grasp it.
IS IT FAIR TO PAY THE SAME DEBT TWICE?? Divine Justice...
by Terry 139 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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John Doe
Terry, the concept of "justice" is notoriously subjective and abstract.
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Terry
So don't think of death as paying twice, because it really isn't, since all these people will come back on Judgment Day. Further it is necessary to be born in sin and imperfection to have a second chance. That's the only way to save Adam's children.
No. No. No. NO!
It is NOT necessary to be BORN in sin.
SIN is misbehavior according to a standard.
The standard has to be possible or it is an unfair standard.
Example: Only people who can flap their wings and fly around the room are allowed to live. This is an unfair standard for declaring people sinners.
You condemn people UNFAIRLY with a standard which is impossible to their nature.
It is a rigged jury who makes such a judgement.
For Adam to have been perfect he would have had to make perfect decisions which resulted in perfect behavior (all according to a perfect and possible standard).
Adam failed his test of perfection. HE COULDN'T HAVE BEEN PERFECT. The test proved what he really was: Adam was imperfect as far as being able to keep a standard of behavior requiring him to not desire to be like his heavenly father knowing good and bad.
Adam's nature was human nature and not heavenly nature. Adam failed to be heavenly.
You may as well condemn a rabbit for not being a bird.
THE LAW OF MOSES proved humans were not able to keep a heavenly standard.
Israel under the Law of Moses bought off (bribed) God through sacrifices to look the other way.
It is just like having criminals give payoffs to the police so they won't be arrested.
It was God's idea to be bribed in this way!
BRIBING GOD is clearly an idea made up by primitive human beings who engaged in child sacrifice and animal sacrifice who were terrified of unseen forces.
There is no Justice or logic to any of this.
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Terry
Mendel's law states that "every individual is the sum total of the characteristics, recessive or dominant, in its two immediate progenitors. There is nothing in any individual that was not in the father or mother of that person, and everything that was in the father and mother is in the offspring."
Balderdash!
So, there was no Beethoven?
There is no genius at all?
There is no talent that suddenly appears in a family line and surpasses the surrounding family traits?
Have you ever seen a Bell Curve?
Genius and utter criminality are at the extreme edges of a Bell Curve. The bulge in the middle produced reasoning such as your quote above!
You are confused about the difference between quantitative and qualitative.
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Terry
Terry: It's hard to explain to someone like you. If you can't see it, hear it, touch it, smell it, taste it, or feel it, IT DOESN'T EXIST according to your viewpoint. Someone said in a post a few days ago (I can't remember who or which topic) that one's personal experiences provide the perspective for what you believe.
Only things which exist actually exist.
How we know they exist is by measuring the impact upon reality in a quantitative way. The rest is metaphor, imagination, construct, synthesis and hypothetical fiction.
Personal Experience is a SUBJECTIVE reaction to either a reality (in which case you have evidence/proof) or a belief to which you respond by attaching an emotional value.
Confusing one's emotional label with an unproved belief is the difference between being a rational person and a superstitious person.
You can call superstition "spirituality" or you can call it sci-fi, but; the result is the same: a story of fiction with a really fanciful plot that excites us and gets us involved in a world that doesn't exist.
I have 5 senses.
Other people have 6. (The 6th one is NON-SENSE)
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John Doe
The rest is metaphor, imagination, construct, synthesis and hypothetical fiction.
Are you saying that these things are unimportant? If so, why so?
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journey-on
Just to clear something up that you mis-read:
recessive or dominant
So, there was no Beethoven?
There is no genius at all?
There is no talent that suddenly appears in a family line and surpasses the surrounding family traits?
It was in his genes.
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journey-on
Only things which exist actually exist
So you're telling the rest of us that you, TERRY, know what exists and doesn't exist based on what you as one human being experiences with his physical senses. Talk to a quantum physicist about things humans can't experience and become enlightened, my friend.
TERRY, open your mind just a little and entertain the POSSIBILITY that there is a dimension that you cannot experience with the five senses. To use a very simplistic illustration: You can't see ultra violet light nor infra red light, but we know it exists on the spectrum. Our physical eyes just can't "see" that frequency.
As far as your justice question goes, I thought you wanted a theological answer. Mine is: This is God's game. He plays it according to his laws/rules. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, BLOOD for BLOOD. You don't want to play the game, then don't buy into it...don't ante up.
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Sarah Smiles
Terry I think I will trust Jehovah that he gave his only begotten son, Jesus.
Faith! I would rather have Faith in Jehovah than in man!
Death will soon be swallowed up and there will be a NEW Heavens and NEW Earth no organization can take that away because it came from God.
There is no other book that can promise such wonderful things as the Bible! I mean NONE!
Like Job said they are too wonderful!
I will always love Jehovah for what he has done for mankind it must be so wonderful that a man like Job could not imagine! What makes anyone else think they can imagine God's wonderful plans?
Who really is better than Almighty God's to question his divine justice?
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justhuman
Missing link. There were other humans or hominids already here on earth when God placed Adam in the garden of Eden (also a metaphor). Adam was different in that he was more spiritual with a soul (God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man came to be a living soul). He was created in the likeness of his Father. There was none found among all that God created suitable as a mate for Adam. God provided a woman in the image of Adam for a help mate.Eve partook of something forbidden and contaminated the pure blood and Adam followed suit. Based on God's just recompense law, he would have covered their mouths rather than their genitals had the "sin" been just disobeying a command not to eat of a certain fruit tree.
She introduced into the DNA --- the blood line --- the gene pool --- however you want to say it, a contamination that introduced death like the animals and hominids.
This is just another hypothesis that makes SOME sense. The "death gene" is in the BLOOD because of going outside God's mandate to procreate with one's own kind.
That is the all point. Nice post. Human history shows that humanoids existed millions of years. We have been evolved, and that is a fact. Homoerectus, neantertal, homosapiens. they were part of the human race.
Adam was chosen at that time by God, and he was giving the free gift of the Holy Spirit, and the soul. That is all. God he was going to use Adam to glorify nature, and human race, but Adam failed to do that.
So that is why He sent Jesus to fullfill that purpose.