WHAT do YOU know about JESUS... and His teachings?

by hibiscusfire 286 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  hibiscusfire

  Granny: First, I don't believe he ever existed and I completely agree with James Thomas if he did exist. I don't "worship" anything.

  Granny,

  
  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1).

  
  Can you see air or oxygen? Without it we would die because that is what we use to breathe. Well even thought you can't see God at this time, many people have had real physical experiences of God leading them to faith in Jesus Christ. You can experience God personally too. All you have to do is open your heart as well as your mind to Him.

  
  This belief is more spiritual. One that can touch and reach the heart. Is love a feeling or is it something you need to debate about? God is love.

  
  Jesus Christ is questionably the most dominant and main person in history. Any true scholar today would not deny that Jesus is indeed a historic figure. They would tell you that he walked on this earth about 2,000 years ago, that he did amazing incredible things and acts of charity, and that He died a horrible death on a Roman cross just outside Jerusalem.

  Hibiscusfire
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  AlphaOmega

  I agree with Poppers

  and Educ8self,
  

  I AM ...
  

  God

  IS ...
  

  I agree !

  It has been said that time is there to prevent all things happening at once, but that sounds too "busy" and "explosion-like" for me.

  I prefer to think of it this way - remove all the divisions:

  time and space , and all the "busy-ness" goes, because there is no "to-ing and fro-ing", there is nowhere to go because you are now here.
  

  I have written this before on JWD but it seems appropriate to say it again...

  In the beginning… I was.

  I had neither shape nor form - I simply "was".

  In the beginning… You were.

  You had neither shape nor form - You simply "were".

  In the beginning, we had unity - we had "oneness", we were one.

  Using "shape and form", I created your universe in order to give the impression that we are separate:

  · I created "space" to give the illusion of "here" and "there"

  · I created "time" to give the illusion of "now" and "then"

  · I created "substance" to give the illusion of "this" and "that".

  However, in reality, none of these divisions exist because nothing is separate from anything else, neither is it separate from me. Everything in your universe is a part of God, not apart from God; therefore there is nothing in your universe apart from Me!

  Without wishing to sound Gnostic, once we realise that matter is not the reality, the divide is removed and we are again "at one". In Christian terms, the curtain is torn and "we are reconciled".

  However, with that thinking, there is a danger of rejecting "the world of matter" and regarding it as evil (as the Gnostics did).

  The world of matter is there for a reason. It must be.
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  Terry

  I prefer to think of it this way - remove all the divisions: time and space , and all the "busy-ness" goes, because there is no "to-ing and fro-ing", there is nowhereto go because you are now here.

  Anybody can play with words and detach them from actual meaning and definition. It is the first assault on rational thinking used by Mystics to disarm your burglar alarm when a thief breaks in to steal your mind.

  You can assert alternate definitions all you want to, but; you cannot change reality by wishing it away.

  A word that can mean anything means nothing.

  Imagine doing this with numbers and see what would result.

  Your boss hands you a pay envelope with a check made out to "Zip" as he explains, "Our accounting department has removed all divisions of decimal places and valuations to save you all the to-ing and fro-ing to the bank. Now that your pay is "Zip" there is nowhere to go because you are now here."

  Doesn't work so well when you apply it to everyday life, eh?

  Nice try.
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  Terry

  Can you see air or oxygen?

  Can you compress it in a bottle for hospitals to use?

  even thought you can't see

  You mean, like on an electroencephalogram? Brainwaves?

  many people(claim to) have had real physical experiences of God leading them to faith in Jesus Christ

  See the difference?

  You can experience God personally too. All you have to do is open your heart as well as your mind to Him.

  Is the word "heart" a metaphor, or, the actual organ? Is the word "mind" a metaphor or a contrived awareness like dreaming?

  This belief is more spiritual

  "Spiritual" is a word without actual definition. So, it can mean anything anytime by anybody in any context. Gosh, how handy to "prove" something!

  Is love a feeling or is it something you need to debate about?

  Love is an emotion. The strongest possible positive emotion. Emotion follows our values. We can value anything and feel the emotion follow. Your pet dog, your teddy bear, your Raggedy Ann doll, your Peter Pan book, Winnie the Pooh, etc. Whatever you value creates an answering emotion. The stronger your attachment the stronger the love. What does this prove about anything?

  Any true scholar today would not deny that Jesus is indeed a historic figure.

  Shall I make you a list?
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  AlphaOmega

  Your boss hands you a pay envelope with a check made out to "Zip" as he explains, "Our accounting department has removed all divisions of decimal places and valuations to save you all the to-ing and fro-ing to the bank. Now that your pay is "Zip" there is nowhere to go because you are now here."

  Doesn't work so well when you apply it to everyday life, eh?

  Nice try.

  The two aren't nearly the same. I don't think that you have transposed the concept to your analogy very clearly.

  Let's suppose we use another analogy. Suppose I were being robbed in the street. The robber holds a knife to me and says, "give me your money, your watch and your wallet".

  I (realising that money and possessions are not "all that life is" hand them over willingly). I therefore give up the things that I don't value in the same way as the robber.

  To the robber, his life is currently centred around collecting physical objects.

  In that analogy, my life is my "reality". The money and other items are simply tools to help me live it.

  Have you tried picturing a world without time or space ?

  Nice try.

  An abrupt statement, but thank you
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  Terry

  Let's suppose we use another analogy. Suppose I were being robbed in the street. The robber holds a knife to me and says, "give me your money, your watch and your wallet".

  I (realising that money and possessions are not "all that life is" hand them over willingly). I therefore give up the things that I don't value in the same way as the robber.

  You've left out the PRIMARY!

  For you to even consider the robber a THREAT he must produce EVIDENCE that he intends you harm.

  Why did you leave out the most important part? It is the KNIFE which gives the threat power.

  You wouldn't hand over your valuables without proof, would you?

  If the robber walked up without showing any knife and demanded your valuables you'd just walk away.

  Well, that is exactly what people who have FAITH do every day! You've proved my point most admirably.

  Thanks.
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  AlphaOmega

  Terry,

  A better analogy (it's still an analogy, so it has flaws, but "go with it" :

  Picture a car chase. Picture the police cars,

  Picture the helicopters monitoring it.

  Picture the chaos, the noise, the speed.

  However, this is all happening on a DVD.

  You get up, you eject the DVD and hold it in your hand.

  The chase is still there. it is on the DVD.

  The beginning of it is there in your hand.

  The end of it is there in your hand.

  Yet, the events are no longer separated by time.

  So in a sense, it is all happening at once.

  Which is the reality ? Watchting it, or holding it all in your hand ?
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  AlphaOmega

  TERRYSAID For you to even consider the robber a THREAT he must produce EVIDENCE that he intends you harm.

  ALPHAOMEGASAID The robber holds a knife to me and says

  Isn't the knife evidence ?

  Well, that is exactly what people who have FAITH do every day! You've proved my point most admirably.

  Thanks.

  I haven't proved anything. Granted SOME people are just "faith without thought" and surrender their possessions and freedom to religion. But some of us surrender nothing. Some of us have faith, thought AND freedom.
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  Terry

  Picture a car chase. Picture the police cars,

  Picture the helicopters monitoring it.

  Picture the chaos, the noise, the speed.

  However, this is all happening on a DVD.

  You get up, you eject the DVD and hold it in your hand.

  The chase is still there. it is on the DVD.

  The beginning of it is there in your hand.

  The end of it is there in your hand.

  Yet, the events are no longer separated by time.

  So in a sense, it is all happening at once.

  What gives words meaning? Context.

  When contexts become recursive they lose their connection to reality within context.

  You have a slip of paper. On one side the words are written: "The statement on the other side of this paper is false."

  You turn the paper over and read the statement. It says: "The statement on the other side of this paper is true."

  The recursive nature of the contexts nullifies any "meaning"

  So too with your analogy.

  A chase exists on a DVD. What context you choose to discuss the chase determines the truth of statements made about the chase.

  Try again.
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  AlphaOmega

  A chase exists on a DVD. What context you choose to discuss the chase determines the truth of statements made about the chase.

  Try again.

  That's the point. Context.

  What context you choose to view it in determines your EXPERIENCE of it.

  Here we are in the "here and now", we are wrapped up in time. In a sense, the DVD is playing.

  However, it is like watching a home movie. Because the true "me", is actually outside "here and now" watching it, not for entertainment purposes, but to "feel", to milk the neuances from the experience.

  However, faith is faith. These are my beliefs and I am not trying to make anyone believe them. I am simply throwing them into the forum. My beliefs do not imprison me and no "governing body" dictates my beliefs to me.

  I am not here to "make belivers" of people, and I hope that you are not here to "make unbelievers" of people.