Yes TERRY------ DITTO, DITTO, and DITTO
Grammy----DITTO
Edipse 1-3 DITTO
WHAT do YOU know about JESUS... and His teachings?
by hibiscusfire 286 Replies latest watchtower bible
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eclipse
Can you see air or oxygen? Without it we would die because that is what we use to breathe. Well even thought you can't see God at this time, many people have had real physical experiences of God leading them to faith in Jesus Christ. You can experience God personally too. All you have to do is open your heart as well as your mind to Him.
Ok, hibie,
Let me put it as simply as possible.
Although we cannot see AIR or OXYGEN, NITROGEN, HYDROGEN, we KNOW these gases exist.
We can measure them, quantify them, even capture them and compress them into tanks. As Terry or another poster mentioned,
They EXIST.
We cannot see gravity, but we know it exists because we can see it's effects or the effect of NO / ZERO gravity.
We cannot see proof of god. Things existing is not proof enough.
I opened my heart. I thought I had god there. Do you know what god was? EMOTIONS.
You can go ahead and feel free to believe in anything you want. Unicorns, fairy's, Santa Clause, Easter Bunny...
FEELING them, opening your heart to them does not make them REAL.
GET IT?
Just because you FEEL God, does not mean there is one.
It does not mean there is no god, but I need more than just a feeling in order to believe!
But, you will believe what you want to, and as long as you are happy, great!
We know of Jesus teachings. You are not showing us anything we do not already know.
We are trying to show you why we do no longer believe and yet you keep insisting to indocrinate us or make us believe.
Let's call it a stalemate.
You believe what you want, and stop preaching, And we will stop trying to convince you there is no god.
Feel free to share all your beliefs without trying to force it on anyone. A discussion of why you believe what you believe is fair.
I do not mind reading people's personal experiences with god. Whatever floats your boat.
I just object to being told that I need to believe in Jesus in order to be happy or fufilled.
guess what? I already am, thanks.
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Terry
Isn't the knife evidence ?
The argument hinges on what gives power to the truth or to an illusion.
A robber can only rob you WHEN YOU ARE MADE TO FEEL POWERLESS to resist.
So too with giving up your life to a story you read in an old book. Where is the power to make it real?
It comes from the FEAR of what might happen if you DON'T surrender your valuables.
That is why I said you left out the Primary. You don't seem to see the foundation of the argument we are engaged in!
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Terry
What context you choose to view it in determines your EXPERIENCE of it.
Here we are in the "here and now", we are wrapped up in time.
Yes, but you cannot remove yourself from the forward flowing events (called "time") as you wish to do. We only have the life we have and it only exists in the reality of flowing events. There is no DVD other than memory. Memory is not THE event.
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AlphaOmega
It comes from the FEAR of what might happen if you DON'T surrender your valuables.
That is why I said you left out the Primary. You don't seem to see the foundation of the argument we are engaged in!
I see what you are saying. The "trigger" is in the mind.
But I do not have my set of beliefs based on fear.
I had morals before I had faith. I still live by those morals. If there is a consequence from doing so (ie that I lived by the "wrong" set of morals) then so be it. I lived my life the best way that I thought.
Yes, but you cannot remove yourself from the forward flowing events (called "time") as you wish to do. We only have the life we have and it only exists in the reality of flowing events. There is no DVD other than memory. Memory is not THE event.
We don't know that. That is your belief. Don't you see... you have chosen a belief (admirably and correctly based on logic, reason and experience) that says that there is nothing outside of the exsistence that you know.
It's a belief, and based on what is provable, it seems the correct belief.
However, I believe that there is something akin to the DVD analogy going on (maybe not all pre-ordained like a DVD, more sort of a choose your own adventure game). I believe in the duality of our exsistence : "here and there"... or getting deeper "here and here"
I know that I cannot remove myself from "time". But I believe that one day (after death ?) I will.
Again, it is down to belief. You would say that mine is based on wishful thinking and dreams, you may be right. You may not. I don't know the answer, any more than you do. I am not stubborn enough to be dogmatic about such things.
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Brother Apostate
It's nice to see the occassional thread started by a faithful one on this forum. I have read through this thread so far, and as usual, most of the comments are negative, haughty, and anti-Christian. I will post my thoughts thus far:
What I know about Jesus and His teachings is this- A perfect, sinless being who existed for ages submitted to His Father's will, was born of a Virgin, fulfilled all the prophesies His Father inspired His prophets to write down, taught mercy, love, and redemption from sin for all the faithful, was filled with Holy Spirit and demonstrated all it's fruits perfectly, performed miracles as signs, taught everything we neeed to know to enter God's Kingdom, poured out his life as a ransom sacrifice as a redemption from sin for all the faithful, and was resurrected to sit at the right hand of His Father as Lord and King over all creation.
To respond to SOME of the negative comments, here goes:
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. - Hebrews 11:6
"Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
'What are you making?'
Does your work say,
'He has no hands'?Woe to him who says to his father,
'What have you begotten?'
or to his mother,
'What have you brought to birth?'-Isaiah 45:9,10
If you would only put FAITH in God, and Pray in FAITH that His Holy Spirit would fill you this day, the first thing in morning, each and every morning, then read His Word after doing so, your FAITH in Him would grow like a mustard seed that sprouts, to fill your fleshly body with the fullness of His Holy Spirit, and you would come to know Him, and let Him direct your steps, and you would come to realize that He has always been there for you, but you have turned your backs on Him.
His Love endures forever, His mercy is without equal.
It is not too late to put your FAITH in Him by doing so, accepting His ransom sacrifice that is offered to you as a free gift, so that you may be sons and daughter of His new covenant, and that you may enter His Kingdom.
Cheers,
Brother Apostate
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serotonin_wraith
Why does the story of Jesus get repeated all the time in theists' arguments, we all know the story. Using the Bible to back the Bible up is circular logic. Shall I paste passages from Lord of the Rings to prove those events REALLY happened?
If you would only put FAITH in God, and Pray in FAITH that His Holy Spirit would fill you this day, the first thing in morning, each and every morning, then read His Word after doing so, your FAITH in Him would grow like a mustard seed that sprouts, to fill your fleshly body with the fullness of His Holy Spirit, and you would come to know Him, and let Him direct your steps, and you would come to realize that He has always been there for you, but you have turned your backs on Him.
In other words, if you start to believe in God with no evidence, then eventually you will feel that you believe in God (with no evidence). Hmmm...
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eclipse
Faith does not need evidence....
I am happy for those here who have faith....
I know I am not welcome into their kingdom, and that is ok
I still wish them all the happiness in the world.
They can quote scripture to me till the cows come home and it will not make a difference.
Unless I heard a LOUD BOOMING VOICE come out of the sky, (as loud as a fighterjet flying 30 feet above the ground,)
and that voice said, ''ECLIPSE! Because you have chosen to forsake me, I will forsake you, and down to the depths of hades I will throw you, be prepared to die!''
Well, then, I would probably believe....
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AlphaOmega
Eclipse... I agree with much that you say
Faith does not need evidence....
I agree, and if you have evidence, it is not faith.
They can quote scripture to me till the cows come home and it will not make a difference.
I agree also... I've never understood why anyone would quote the Bible to someone who doesn't believe it. Isn't that akin to quoting "Harry Potter" to someone as proof that he exsisted ?
Unless I heard a LOUD BOOMING VOICE come out of the sky, (as loud as a fighterjet flying 30 feet above the ground,)
and that voice said, ''ECLIPSE! Because you have chosen to forsake me, I will forsake you, and down to the depths of hades I will throw you, be prepared to die!''
Well, then, I would probably believe....
I don't believe that is how it works. Doesn't seem compassionate to me.
The Wiccans ( I know many) have a good ethic in relation to this...
They view an attempt to "convert" someone to their beliefs, or to get them to change paths is harmful and covered by the following in the Wiccan Rede...
These Eight words the Rede fulfill:
"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will" -
lalliv01
Concerning JC and Justice: IMO, A god of justice demanded an equal price be paid for the object being bought. In the case of JC's death, it was the only correct price
to pay to correspond to Adam's life. In other words, I smack you in the kisser, there's only one way for us to be even. Right! Where's the justice in it for JC, you ask?
Well, He lost the only life he had ever known since the beginning of creation, that's true, but, He got a bigger,"badder" life than the one he started out with. IMO, God
did right by Him.
As far as wasting our time worshipping God when we could be spending enjoying it with our family and friends. Where is it written that you can't do that,all you want,
to your heart's content and still serve God? I get the impression that some of you think that "worshipping" God entails "wasting" some of your time on rites, rituals,
placing mags.,conducting home bible studies, etc.,etc. Truly, I don't think God needs anything, anything, from any of us. That fellow that was hanging on the
torture stake next to Christ and he asked Christ to remember him when He went into his Kingdom, JC said, I gotcha, I'll remember you, you'll be with me in paradise,
just exactly how much time did this fellow "waste" worshipping God so as to deserve this blessing? How much time did he spend in the ninistry to deserve this?
What price did God demand from this criminal? And he must have been a bad one, this one, he said so himself. IMHO.