Does God love you?

by nvrgnbk 96 Replies latest jw friends

keyser soze

I have seen more evidence of aliens than I have of Jesus.
I wanna hear more. We can compare notes.
eclipse

Listen, SHELBY
obviously you are still not getting what I am saying.
I get that the old writers of the bible did not have the bible. DUH!!!! no kidding!
You say they heard god, right? Right here:
Where did Abel get them from? Enoch? Noah? Abraham? Joseph? Moses? Socrates? John the Baptist? Saul of Tarsus? I get them from the same Source, which Source I have not withheld from you
The Bible wasn’t even canonized until the 4th century A.D. What did those before that time “go by”? What did Abel “go by”? Enoch? Noah? Abraham? Moses? Joseph? Ruth? Rahab? What “bible” did they read to learn about God? How does one who cannot read learn about God?
So if they ''heard'' god, (just as you claim that you have) why do you discredit what they wrote as being uninspired?? Did they make it up? Did they lie? Did they just tell bedtime stories?
Now before you go off on me, you just said that the bible is NOT from god, only Jesus' teachings are what you follow...so how can you quote these writers as examples of people that god has spoken to, and yet at the same time, say that the bible is not from god?
I am sure you believe that; unfortunately, you are in error. We ALL serve someone… whether we wish it or not, whether we know it or not. You admit you see and hear nothing. Well, what you do not see or hear… is quite a lot and it has been around long before you ever came into existence and will be long after you’re gone from this world.
No physical or scientific evidence or proof, just your opinion and your belief. I am not saying that perhaps one day we will develope technology to hear god, (just like we have developed technology to hear sounds out of the human hearing range), but right now, there is no evidence that god exists. And that is all I can say. I cannot say he does not exist, I can only say, there is no evidence to show he does.
You have a feeling that he does. I don't. Like I've told other christians, you are more special than me if he has chosen you to reveal himself to.
Go and feel special that he has chosen you as well, good luck with that.
Don't call me dear. It's condesending and is a false display of kindness. I do not care what you say about that, you would be lying if you said you meant it a sincere manner. There is nothing sincere about your showy kindness..
There is nothing more repugnant to me than a two-faced person who pretends to be nice when they are actually self-righteous.
I dealt with more than enough people like that as a JW and you are just like them, and I am sick of it.
At least I am honest. Call me a hypocrite all you like. At least I dont pretend to be a christian. I know what I am. An unrighteous sinner.
How am I a hypcocrite? I did not say, ''oh I love god'', I dont.
If you think god and jesus are one and the same, then knock yourself out. I dont believe they are. I see two seperate identities.
So I am not a hypcocrite in my beliefs.
No, you haven't. You may have seen what some have told you is evidence, but you it's not true and you just say that because you think it sounds "wise" and makes a point. It doesn neither, actually, but only begs the question why create a lie just to make a point? Seems like an awful lot of unnecessary work, to me…
How do you know what I personally have or haven't seen? This is how presumptuous you are? That's the most asinine comment I have ever had anyone say to me especially one who does not know me. And then you have the audacity to keep going and say I am lying?
Have you seen what I have seen? no you have not. So shut it.
You need to stop making assumptions about people, and base your statements on some concrete facts for a change, and stop oscillating.
You quoting scriptures for ''their benefit'' is the lamest cop-out I have ever read from a christian.
AGuest

Listen, SHELBY, obviously you are still not getting what I am saying
Perhaps. I don’t think that’s the case, but… perhaps.

I get that the old writers of the bible did not have the bible. DUH!!!! no kidding!
Well, you asked me…

You say they heard god, right?
Ummmmm… no, I didn’t say that…

Right here: "Where did Abel get them from? Enoch? Noah? Abraham? Joseph? Moses? Socrates? John the Baptist? Saul of Tarsus? I get them from the same Source, which Source I have not withheld from you. The Bible wasn’t even canonized until the 4th century A.D. What did those before that time “go by”? What did Abel “go by”? Enoch? Noah? Abraham? Moses? Joseph? Ruth? Rahab? What “bible” did they read to learn about God? How does one who cannot read learn about God?"
I am not sure how you got that I said I “heard god” out of that. I see where I said, “… learn about God,” but is not at all the same thing. Not at all.

So if they ''heard'' god, (just as you claim that you have)
Actually, I did NOT claim to have heard God here. True, I have heard His voice… three times. But I did not mention that here. Not at all.

why do you discredit what they wrote as being uninspired??
Ummmm… okay, we didn’t even touch the subject of what is inspired and what isn’t. That is another subject entirely, which I have posted extensively on at this site. Moving on… I’m sorry, but I have to ask: is what Abel wrote in the Bible? How about Enoch? Noah? Abraham? Okay, so Joseph wrote the Genesis and that is there… and some of Moses… but I have seen nothing in the Bible written by John the Baptist. And Paul… was not inspired at all times when he wrote..

Did they make it up? Did they lie? Did they just tell bedtime stories?
First, if you’re talking about the Bible writers, only two of which are included above, my answer would be no, they didn’t make it up. But what they wrote… is not necessarily what’s in the Bible. Which is what I’m saying… and you’re not getting. At all.

Now before you go off on me, you just said that the bible is NOT from god, only Jesus' teachings are what you follow...so how can you quote these writers as examples of people that god has spoken to, and yet at the same time, say that the bible is not from god?
First, I am not the one "going off." Now, then, I can say the Bible is not from God because the Bible… is NOT from God. The Bible contains “scripture”… which IS from God. But it contains a lot of other stuff that isn’t. At least two books, Luke’s gospel account and Acts tell you who commissioned them (Theophilus, not God), and who gave Luke the information (people that claim to have been eyewitnesses, not God). Holy spirit had nothing to do with what Luke wrote. And Paul even stated on occasion that he was speaking outside the spirit; even if he didn’t, however, his early teachings demonstrated that he was on his own and not going by the spirit. That’s one of the reasons he and the 12 apostles fell out and didn’t see each other for about 14 years.

Those things notwithstanding, however, what was inspired was also tampered with: that is one of the reasons why there was such a hoopla over the Septuagint version: the Masoretes didn’t agree with it at all and considered it a major deviation.

But surely you know all of this. Surely you have researched the history of the Bible, the reason for its many versions, the FACT that various authors didn’t agree with other authors… and so changed things to suit their understanding, belief, interpretation, what have you. Right? Even today, there are those who have a problem with the NWT and its removal of “Lord” and insertion of “Jehovah.”

So who’s right? The WTBTS? King James? The Catholic Douay? Personally, I wouldn’t even bother to rack my tiny little brain trying to figure that out. Instead, I simply asked the One about whom they all purpose to bear witness… and HIS response is that they ALL have been tampered with… and that even before the first Bible was ever canonized, the “scriptures” had been altered by the false stylus of the scribes. Which is why, as I stated earlier, he said WOE to them.

No physical or scientific evidence or proof, just your opinion and your belief. I am not saying that perhaps one day we will develop technology to hear god, (just like we have developed technology to hear sounds out of the human hearing range), but right now, there is no evidence that god exists. And that is all I can say. I cannot say he does not exist, I can only say, there is no evidence to show he does.
First, God is a Spirit. As is Christ. Therefore, there would BE no physical evidence, as they are not physical beings. We, however, are physical beings and, unfortunately for us, that physicality almost always dictates that what we experience MUST be empirical… or at least physically manifest. I find it interesting that you say perhaps one day we might develop technology to hear God. I state to you that we don’t really need it. I also state to you that you are very close when you speak about hearing sounds [normally] out of human hearing range. For that is what it is like, actually. My Lord speaks on a different… ummmmm… frequency… if you will. That’s really all it is. If that’s true, you might ask, then how is it that I can hear him? I can only say that he “prepared” my physical body by allowing it to access the spirit realm. I see, hear, feel, smell… even taste… things that exist in that realm. It is a gift that was granted to me.

Psychics have some of the same… ummmm… skill; however, I was not given my gift to use for profit or divination. I was not given it to use for my own benefit, to garner attention for myself or to give people something to marvel over. I was given it because (1) because I had faith… the size of a mustard seed, such that when my Lord first called me, I responded, and (2) when I was asked “Who will go?” I said, “I will, send me.” Well, certainly, sending me without the means to accomplish the task would have been moot.

You have a feeling that he does. I don't. Like I've told other christians, you are more special than me if he has chosen you to reveal himself to.
I am VERY sorry you feel that way. Many do, and unfortunately, it’s because RELIGION has taught you to do so by creating such things as clergy-laity… elders-friends… bishops-parishes… you know, divisions like that. IF you had read the Bible, you would come across words that say that each member is set in the Body just as GOD wishes… and that place can be a hand, as much as it can be an eye. You would have learned that, like the physical body, the Body of Christ has parts for both honorable and dishonorable purposes.

I am not special. I was not called because I was special. I was called… because I was/am a SINNER (for Christ came to call such ones)… and because I answered when I was called.

Go and feel special that he has chosen you as well, good luck with that.
I must ask you (as I said, I am NOT special… far from it. BUT…) if I were "special," why does that bring up such animosity in YOU? What is happening with YOUR self-esteem that you are not comfortable with who…. and where… YOU are? I am quite fine with my place at my Lord’s table. Contrary to what you may believe… it is NOT up close by him; rather, it is actually down at the foot, in the place of service to everyone else at the table. So what? If my Lord condescends to come down to my end and say to me, “Go, tell those of the Household that I say come, eat and drink,” what would you expect me to do? Say, “Uh, no, Lord, I don’t think so. I think you oughta mosey on back up to the head of the table and tell one them up there to go, ‘cause folks’ll listen to one of them but not to me?” Are you SERIOUS?”

Let me tell you how I think: I would say, and I did, “Yes, Lord. Whatever YOU say, and whatever YOU wish. If you wish me to go, while I certainly think those others up there could say it much better, and while I certainly think folks’ll probably listen to them but not to me, I will certainly go and do just as you have told me!”

I am at the FOOT of the table, dear Eclipse. Who am I to turn down a task from the Holy One of Israel? Get real.

Don't call me dear. It's condesending and is a false display of kindness. I do not care what you say about that, you would be lying if you said you meant it a sincere manner. There is nothing sincere about your showy kindness.
I do not use it to display kindness; I use it because that’s how my Lord refers to you and others. You are dear to HIM… and so he has taught me to address you and others as such. So, I will use it. Perhaps you can try not to hurry yourself to be offended…

There is nothing more repugnant to me than a two-faced person who pretends to be nice when they are actually self-righteous.
Lordy, I know exactly what you mean…

I dealt with more than enough people like that as a JW and you are just like them, and I am sick of it.
I totally get that. But, now, see, to me, you’re doing it again: accusing someone of doing/being something, when you have absolutely NO knowledge of them. I take it you’re either quite young or quite sheltered.

At least I am honest. Call me a hypocrite all you like. At least I dont pretend to be a christian. I know what I am. An unrighteous sinner.
I never said you were dishonest. Misled, maybe. Speaking of what you don’t know, certainly. And a hypocrite, yes, particularly in light of the defense you’re putting up here because you feel “attacked”, after having jumped on the slander bandwagon and attacked the Most Holy One of Israel.

And to set the record straight, I am a christian. I am also a foremost sinner. I am also unrighteous. Can one BE a true Christian and NOT be a sinner? Can one be a true Christian and NOT be unrighteous? Hmmmm… let’s see: my Lord said he came to call sinners… and not righteous people. My Lord said “Righteous people have no need of salvation.” Well, I need salvation… so I must not be righteous. And I have been called… so I must be a sinner. Again, you speak of things which you do not know… because you’ve been misled. Seriously so, too.

How am I a hypcocrite? I did not say, ''oh I love god'', I dont.
You’re a hypocrite because YOU make accusations against God, whom you do not know, based on what others have written, which writings have been falsified… yet you have a problem that I called you a hypocrite for doing so, although I based it on what YOU wrote… which revealed you to me. You want me to give YOU the benefit of the doubt that you are not what I have deemed you to be, based on what YOU wrote… but you aren’t willing to give the Most Holy One of Israel the benefit of the doubt that He is not what YOU deem Him to be… based on what OTHERS wrote. That is hypocrisy.

If you think god and jesus are one and the same, then knock yourself out. I dont believe they are. I see two seperate identities.
WHOAAA! Where did you get that I believe THAT??!! You are SERIOUSLY in error on that one. Seriously!

So I am not a hypcocrite in my beliefs.
Believing that God and Christ are separate… or not… does not make you a hypocrite. Falsely accusing someone of conduct, of which YOU have no knowledge, but base on what others have told you… and yet having a problem when you perceive that something similar is being done to you… makes you a hypocrite.

How do you know what I personally have or haven't seen? This is how presumptuous you are? That's the most asinine comment I have ever had anyone say to me especially one who does not know me. And then you have the audacity to keep going and say I am lying? Have you seen what I have seen? no you have not. So shut it.
I am not being presumptuous; I am being truthful. I know you haven’t seen evidence of aliens. YOU know you haven’t seen evidence of aliens. True, you may have seen things that some try to pass off as evidence of aliens. But we both know they’re not from aliens.

You need to stop making assumptions about people, and base your statements on some concrete facts for a change, and stop oscillating.
I’ve assumed nothing… other than that perhaps you’ve posted here for less then 2 months. And I could certainly be wrong there. But I don’t think so.

You quoting scriptures for ''their benefit'' is the lamest cop-out I have ever read from a christian.
Nahhh, you just ran out of stuff to say that would “show me.” I am sorry that you are so upset, truly, because if you couldn’t see or hear clearly before, you certainly can’t now. At least, not right now. That is my fault, to some degree, and for that I apologize. I do NOT apologize, however, for speaking the truth for you… or for standing up against the false accusations levied against my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. I would do it again, in a heartbeat.

BTW – VERY “mature” icon – LOLOL! Here’s mine back:
AlphaOmega

I can't believe what is happening here !
This was supposed to be a thread about God's love - and now look at it !
What was the great commission? It was to preach the news and make disciples !
How do some of these posts even come close to achieving that ?
These threads ALWAYS (with only a couple of exceptions) degenerate into a "them and us" war of harsh words ! Why ?
How does anyone expect to open the tub of butterly love and spread it around with a sharp knife like that ?
This thread has several posts made by sincere TRUTHSEEKRS who really are looking for just a small taste of the Divine... just one !
Then they will feel it for themselves.
I am glad that I found my faith before ever getting embroiled in "debates" like this, because I believe that Christ would be ashamed and embarassed by many of those who claim to speak in his name !
nvrgnbk

I love your approach, AO.
You have my respect.
Always.
truthsearcher

(emerging from the chocolate ice cream)
Phew! Now I feel strong enough to say that God does love me, and to prove it, Nvr, I'm going to sing you a song:
*ahem, clearing throat*
"Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells me so"
I know it is not very deep theologically at first glance, but when you really think about it, if Jesus was the incarnate God, then that speaks VOLUMES about the kind of love that God has for us. And I believe the Koine Greek when it says in John that "God was the Word".
Now, excuse me but I think I hear some chocolate chip cookies calling...
serotonin_wraith
Eliveleth

I guess my reply is to eclipse and AGuest,
I am a Christian. I believe that God loves me. I believe that He loves all of us. God does not judge by what we do or what we say. He reads the heart. Many of the things you said, AGuest, I believe also. I believe that God speaks to our hearts and leads us if we allow Him to. I believe in speaking the truth to people, but it must be done in a tactful and kind way. Perhaps eclipse has been aroused by your calling her a hypocrite. I believe it is never right to call names. Even if, in your mind, she is, it is not in the interest of helping someone to see your viewpoint when you do this. Jesus only called those hypocrites whom he knew, by reading their hearts in their actions. We are not able to read the heart so we should be very careful. I hope this does not come across "self-righteous". I certainly don't want it to. Please forgive me if it does.
eclipse, I understand your feelings. I would have felt "attacked" by some of the things AGuest said, even though I might agree with some of the content, I do not agree with the way it was said. God loves us all, but some of us do not feel it because of the way we have been treated by people claiming to be God's agent or representative. We can tell "the truth" as we know it, but we cannot get people to accept it if they have not experienced it. I pray that you will allow God to show you His love. He will not force it on you.
And to Nvr who started the thread: Yes, He does.
Love and hugs,
Velta
eclipse

Velta,
Your brand of christianity is more like the one I have read Jesus spoke about.
You gather more bees with honey, than you do with vinegar, Shelby.
Shelby, you would do well to admit it when you are wrong. and you were wrong.
I think you're self-righteous and arrogant.
Velta is the opposite of you. She displays true christ like qualities.
I have read the Bible, you assume I haven't. That is what I meant when I said you assume things about me.
Shelby, You have your beliefs, and I prefer to not have your beliefs shoved down my throat like some chloroformed rag.
If you think you gain any disciples, or any converts to your way of thinking, you are seriously more deluded than I thought.
I am happy for you that you think you are one of the saved, one of the chosen, one of 'his slaves', GOOD FOR YOU!
but just because I do not feel that way does not give you the right to call me or anyone else that shares my viewpoints, hypocrite.
I think that if we have blasphemed god, then it is up to GOD to judge us, not you.
Take care Velta.
lalliv01

Nvr.
Does God exact more than this?
Good Question. Can anyone here say exactly what price must WE pay to reach "paradise?"
The evildoer that was hanging by Christs' side at Calvary, that criminal that deserved what he was
getting, what was exacted (required) of him for him to receive that blessing from Christ,"Verily I say
unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise?" (Luke 23:43). How many hrs. did he spend in FS?
How many BS did he conduct with persons of GW? What did he do, what was exacted of him?
Whatever he did, he (the evildoer) had the answer. IMO.
Oh yeah, He does love us.

Does God love you?

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