Where Do We Really Go When We Die ? (page 4)

nvrgnbk

A Freudian slip, but not mine. I just do copy and paste.

Yep.

No harm intended.

I thought it was cute.

nvrgnbk

When we DIE the conditions for our consciousness no longer remain adeqate for us to continue as conscious, thinking personalities. The plugs are pulled one by one and we flicker like a TV screen with the antenna detached.
When we lose the signal there is only the random firings of nerve impulses and twitching muscle groups starved of direction and purpose.

Consciousness creates energy.

Could that energy "become" something else, once the corporeal dies?

One cannot say dogmatically that it is so, but it's an entertaining thought.

It is this very specific contingency of the physical and the mental which makes possible the fragile and ephemeral phenomenon of human life.

Can the mental be considered distinct from the physical?

Haven't you just asserted that the mental is purely physical?

If it is indeed "something more", can it be defined as spiritual?

Not challenging you, friend.

Just wondering "out loud" thanks to your inspiration.

Jim_TX

I tend to lean towards the 'there is something after death' class of people. Just what... I do not know - yet.

My aunt - who is passed on, used to have abilities to 'see' things. (I feel that there are those that have this ability - and others - who do not.) My aunt was Mormon, but believed that she could 'see' when a person died. She also believed that her deceased husband would come and sit on her bed, and they talk in the evenings.

Anyway... she would tell of this person - or that person - who would pass through her living room - and it was usually at the moment that they passed on.

One incidence she related was that of my mother - when she passed. She said she saw her, and she was looking about - as if disoriented. My aunt called to her, "Diana?!" - and then my mother passed on.

Now... my mom was a devout JW. She believed in the JW-speak. The 'dead are conscious of nothing at all' hype. I feel that there IS something beyond, after hearing this story related. I can only imagine the confusion one might experience when they pass on - thinking that they are going to be maggot-food - and then find out different.

My wife has a bit of 'psychic' ability... she usually gets 'feelings' when we visit places where many people have died. She also gets 'taps' on the shoulder, like the time when we were visiting the USS Lexington in Corpus Christi - and I fell behind, looking at something. She thought it was me, but when she turned around - no one was there.

But - that said - you will believe what you will believe.

Regards,

Jim TX

Terry

Consciousness creates energy.

Energy is not created.

Energy is a constituency of consciousness. Tangy flavor doesn't create lemonade.

Could that energy "become" something else, once the corporeal dies?

Perform this thought experiment.

There is a worktable with a thousand little building blocks in a box. Using these little blocks you can manipulate various figures and build walls, cars, houses, towers, or mere shapes by pluging them into each other.

Once you use up the thousand blocks, stop!

What will you have to do in order to build something else; something new; some new shape?

Will you not have to dismantle one of the existing figures to "steal" blocks for the new construction?

Yes.

Imagine you've built a thousand block figure of an elephant and now you have no more blocks. To build a giraffe you will have to unplug the elephant blocks.

As the giraffe takes shape the elephant disappears bit by bit.

So too with the atoms which are plugged together to form molecules and cells and organs and bodies.

When we die, our parts (building blocks) are busted up into mere atoms (eventually).

Those become new building blocks for whatever is next.

Each of us alive today has at least some of Julius Caesar's atomic parts in us somewhere!

(Incidentally, this is why Time Travel is impossible. All the parts (atoms) have been reused and cannot be in two places at the same time.)

nvrgnbk

I follow your argument well.

Thank you!

I get very clearly what you're saying about the reorganization of the atoms.

Each of us alive today has at least some of Julius Caesar's atomic parts in us somewhere!

That's pretty cool.

So is it fair to say that death does beget life?

journey-on

Great analogy using the blocks, Terry. But there's one problem with it. These are inanimate objects. We are

alive with consciousness and that consciousness is not totally understood by either science or theology. They

each hypothesize and theorize, but neither really knows WHAT consciousness is. What if your consciousness is

made up of "spiritual stuff" that has yet to be discovered by science and upon death remains intact? Before you

laugh this off, remember that there are many things that can't be seen and require a mechanism to be useful. Radio

waves come to mind. Electrical energy needs a receiver...a transformer...a transmitter...etc. to be useful. What if

your "spirit/soul" needs a receiver to "play". When the receiver wears out, the spirit/soul is still intact and perhaps

carries something new that it received from your mind and heart to carry with it into the next "receiver"?

Cindi_67

I will reply because I have the same question. Like many of you I have been in the Org. for many years and of course was taught that we are plainly dead, nothing stays alive. Well if that is the case my question is:

The resurrected will come back in a new body. If nothing survives after we die, how come the resurrected person will come back with a new body (when the old one could be recreated), but the personality, the memories, the love, (which are inanimated) etc. will be the same? That makes me question the fact that something does survive our physical bodies. God is capable of recreating our body exactly the same way doesn't he? Why create a new body? Where does he store our memories, our feelings, our personality if that ceases to exist after we die?

Our brain has the neurons and synapses and cells which control our lives . What we are is in and of our brain. There is no "spirit" that exists apart from our brain. If a person gets a brain injury or has Alzheimer's, he cannot function. If we had a soul or spirit apart from our body, why can't that "spirit' overcome those injuries and continue to be sentient? Or for that matter what need would a soul have for a phsyical brain if that brain were unnecessary for the soul's existence? (i.e. after death)

This has been on my mind for quite sometime now. I don't mean to sound disrespecful towards God by what I am going to say, but he has kept a lot of things from us. Adam & Eve were told by Satan that that was the case. They wouldn't be able to eat from the tree. God was testing them. After they passed the test, probably they would and be entitled to know more about Jehovah. The prophets wrote about things they didn't understand and never will. Jehovah kept secrets from them too. What makes you (all of us general) think that in the case of the dead, there are things that we don't know about, because it is not our business to know?

But it makes me think.

Terry

So is it fair to say that death does beget life?

Death returns the "cards" that have been "hands" to the discard stack for reshuffling and redealing.

Whatever "hand" comes next is either a contender (life) or a loser (non-life).

On the atomic level the game pieces are always necessary for "something" rather than "nothing".

But, I wouldn't say "begat". Sounds like archaic sex to me!

Terry

Great analogy using the blocks, Terry. But there's one problem with it. These are inanimate objects. We are
alive with consciousness and that consciousness is not totally understood by either science or theology.

Think of the pointillist paintings of Seurat. Without the juxtaposition of the dots of color placed "just so" there would not be the opportunity to step back and consider the "Big Picture".

We "frame" our view by stopping and starting within some bracket of "meaning". So too with consciousness.

At some point the meat and energy stop being mere meat and energy "merely". There is the level on which consciousness operates.

The paintings of the pointillist aren't mere dots for the art lover (or for the artist). Yet, they are actually.

There is a meta-level to our consideration, isn't there? Yes, always.

journey-on

If we had a soul or spirit apart from our body, why can't that "spirit' overcome those injuries and continue to be sentient? Or for that matter what need would a soul have for a phsyical brain if that brain was unnecessary for the soul's existence? (i.e. after death)

Can the electricity that operates your radio fix the radio when it wears out? In order to experience this

physical realm, the soul needs to resonate with the frequency of this dimension (matter). To experience

creation on this plane with the five senses (sight, taste, touch, smell, hearing), it needs a vehicle in tune

with this frequency....the body. When the body wears out, the soul/spirit/consciousness returns to its

own dimension till the next vehicle becomes available. This is just my current belief. I'm open to something

else, but this makes perfect sense to me right now.

Where Do We Really Go When We Die ?

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