"If we had a soul or spirit apart from our body, why can't that "spirit' overcome those injuries and continue to be sentient? Or for that matter what need would a soul have for a phsyical brain if that brain was unnecessary for the soul's existence? (i.e. after death)"
The spirit is just along for the ride, for the experience. Take away the ego, and there is ambivalence to everything. See all things from an objective detatched way.
S
Where Do We Really Go When We Die ?
by flipper 71 Replies latest jw friends
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Satanus
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snowbird
What makes you (all of us general) think that in the case of the dead, there are things that we don't know about, because it is not our business to know?
But it makes me think.
That is my take on things. There is so much that we don't know - yet. However, the mere fact that we can THINK about those things should tell us something. Adam was told that he was going to return to the ground from which he was taken. Evidently that was all he needed to know - then.
I firmly believe that eventually all our questions are going to be answered. Until that time, I'll stake my faith on the answer in Genesis.
Sylvia
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Terry
Electrical energy needs a receiver...a transformer...a transmitter...etc. to be useful. What if
your "spirit/soul" needs a receiver to "play". When the receiver wears out, the spirit/soul is still intact and perhaps
carries something new that it received from your mind and heart to carry with it into the next "receiver"?
Music is vibration. However, it is certainly more than mere vibration. Music exists in "real" time. It has duration.
But, the energy of the vibration is not the importance or even the identiy.
You see, what something IS has to do with not only the nature of it (constituency) but, ultimately (as far as humans are concerned) the essential "meaning".
Consciousness is a kind of music which uses energy to endure in real time for the length of its duration. But, it begins and it ends. Each orchestra that plays Symphony 5 consists of different players and different actual instruments in different locations, etc. But, the Beethoven "consciousness" is always implied. It no longer is purely Beethoven essentially or actually. It is merely implied.
If it is in the music it was in the man. Thus, Beethoven's music implies the man in some way.
What you ARE and what I AM at this moment is only essentially and actualy and consciously US right now. Then, we are become and become and become something else. More? Less? Other? Same? Just change is all.
By freeze-framing your concept of consciousness and entity you do disservice to the IS-ness of consciousness for any sake of reality.
We are music. We sing our selves in the real time of our lives. Our nature is to exist in that song in that moment as it passes.
The melody may haunt or merely vanish in the October wind. It is not---it IS--it is not again.
We are not..we ARE..we are not again.
The vast silence of eternity is only broken by the fragile grace of our momentary melody.
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journey-on
Satanus...
The spirit is just along for the ride, for the experience.
Exactly! This is what I think. The spirit/soul is experiencing creation (on the material plane) through our
body and its five senses. WE experience our life through our mind and personality. Somehow the two
have become separated on a conscious level and we need to find that communion again. We lost it somehow.
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Double Edge
Flipper.... you have a PM.
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flipper
O.K. Now that I have a little time I will try to respond to the many various diverse comments here, individually as much as possible. Wow! Didn't expect this much feedback on death, but thanks for all your replies. So here it goes from the first responder till present.
CASPER- Thanks for sharing your story . I'm so sorry to hear your husband committed suicide. My condolences to you. I too, as of now do not believe in a afterlife. Unless something happens differently to me, I maintain that view. Hope you are doing better now Casper. Hope you have attained some measure of peace in your life.
PROPHECOR- I hope you are right. I think 100 years is too short a life too. Make me a deal. When your time comes to die, after you've died, will you please e-mail me if you get resurrected somewhere ? Then I'll believe ! Deal?
POPPERS- Wow! What an experience ! You felt you father and brother's prescence. Must have been interesting !
WEDNESDAY- Interesting you too have sensed your deceased parents prescence. I'll have to check out Sylvia Brownes books. I did see the movies "Always " and "Ghost ". Great movies !
WORLD TRAVELLER- Which body parts are you going to salvage from yourself if you croak prematurely ? Pacific Ocean would be a nice place to be spread into.
JK666- LOL! I agree with your statement, but I have a modern version of your take, it goes, " MIllions of Jehovah's Witnesses now Living, are already Dead." By Mr. Flipper
HELNCON- That is an interesting concept that maybe your grandmothers spirit passed into your daughter. It's a comforting thought. Sorry you lost your grandmother. Peace.
FREE2B ME- Yes. I believe in spirits too. But I don't know if they are dead relatives. Maybe they are a different entity or something. I have watched some of the psychic ghost hunting shows, and they are pretty weird.
MADDIE- I don't believe in a resurrection , but I feel there is some force out there that are "ghosts " or " spirits " or something. I too was a bit nervous about it, probably being raised a witness.
GREENDAWN- Yeah , when you're dead, your dead. You are right when you said, if you're dead time doesn't matter, you are still not aware of it. I think some people need hope that there is something after death to keep them going in this life. I'm not one who needs it really.
CYRUS the PERSIAN- I tend to agree with everything you said . When we die , we die, cease to exist. It would be nice to see relatives again, but I believe improbable.
SKIMMER- I think I've explored the physics of immorality myself on occasion. It seemed pretty easy for me to enjoy and understand. LOL! I know just a typo. But information about deceased people can also be obtained by genealogy studies and research.
NARKISSOS- So, let me try to understand. You feel we are constructed of many things which came before us ? It's true too that these things will be around after us too. But I don't feel I will be connected to these things after I die. Just my take.
NVR- Good to hear from ya! How goes it? It is true there is creation out of destruction, life out of death. We see it all the time in nature and the animal world all the time. In nature animals prey on one another to survive, to stay alive. But even when they die, that's it. They cease to exsist. Of course, unless you are one of Jaguarbass relatives dogs. They come back from the dead to say Hi! Peace.
TERRY- Thanks for the deep replies, I must admit, some of it went over my head. You asked if I knew where I was before I was born ? No. I'll have to ask myself sometime. I am, while alive, totally dependent on lucidness and staying sane to keep me going .Fortunately my T.V. Anteenna that you mentioned is still pretty well connected. The only time as a living being that I have had, " Twitching muscle groups starved of direction and purpose ", was when I was drinking too much. In all seriousness though, I agree with you, that when we die, we die. It's just sad.
One question though. You made a statement I have never heard before. What the hell is , " the blinding howl of beingness ' ? That's a new one on me. Please clarify
NVR- All I know is I have had plenty of concious energy while alive. Will keep kicking till I'm dead !
JIM- Very interesting experiences to consider. Sounds like with your aunt and wife you have people in your family with psychic abilities to determine and discover these things. Thanks for sharing. Peace
JOURNEY ON- Good reasoning on your part. A lot of things are invisible that need connecting. Not everything is totally understood. I agree we experience our lives through our mind and personality also.
DOUBLE EDGE- Thanks for the p.m.
SATANUS- My spirit has been along for the ride in my life too. I try to be objectively detached too.
SNOWBIRD- Hello. Thanks for your takes and opinions. Looks like I've started a mini-debate/ hurricane here. Anyway, I feel that when we die, we are dead. Can't prevent it. Just roll with it and accept it. Peace out to all, thanks for your replies. Mr. Flipper
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Terry
One question though. You made a statement I have never heard before. What the hell is , " the blinding howl of beingness ' ? That's a new one on me. Please clarify. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
We emerge from our mother screaming (or soon after) in a blinding light (compared to the darkness of the womb.)
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Abaddon
Although I am sceptical, I don't know for sure if our personalities cease to exist as seems logically likely given the evidence.
I do know people like Sylvia Browne are nasty little charlatans parasitising the bereaved.
http://www.randi.org/jr/012805opinions.html
http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/interview_dufresnes.shtml
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Satanus
Yes, sylvia brown is a desperate little faker b@#$%^. She may have, or may have had some ability. But, when you need to give results all the time, every time, it's easier to just fake it. She should find another job.
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flipper
TERRY- Thanks for the clarification . Mr. Flippers mind is too blinded to comprehend your metaphors. Good stuff though. Peace to you.
ABADDON- Yeah, I'm not too clear on what happens either. But you are right, if this woman, Sylvia Browne is taking advantage of the bereaved with falsities, then she should be stopped. Peace out.
SATANUS- I assume by your comments, Sylvia Browne is a B.S. artist ? Do any of her predictions come true ? Peace out.