January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

by t33ap80c 82 Replies latest jw friends

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot

    'Christ Approves of them' for no other reason that they SAY that 'Christ approves of them!'

    Now! Let them PROVE it!

    As far as I am aware, the 'Christ' was not consistently changing his mind about matters. That is the ONE CONSISTENT theme that runs through the history of the WTBTS, constant change in beliefs and doctrines!

    It certainly takes a giant portion of audacity and chutzpah to come onto the world scene and declare that "Christ has chosen THEM" above ALL others, in view of their blunders and horrendous "mistakes" taught as indisputable bible truths and food from God.

    They have NOT proven anything but to demonstrate how totally foolish they have become while touting themselves as THE only true religion on earth. I, too, was duped and thoroughly deceived for 30 years by these clever frauds, but the internet showing the "other side of the story" wiped out ANY trust in them within a year of examination of their history and changing doctrines.

    The bible tells us that these things WILL be revealed and exposed.....and it most assuredly has been accomplished. The WTS is treading water (but losing) in trying to keep all the balls in the air while trying to juggle their totally messed up theology while attempting to appear credible.

  • bud2114
    bud2114

    You will never win this argument with a devout witness by bringing up the wrong teachings and wrong understandings being taught in 1919 - believe me I've tried. Unfortunately, the WT leaders have successfully convinced millions that they (early witnesses) alone were "in general" doing what was proper in God's eyes compared to everyone else - especially Christendom.

    As this weeks Revelation book study information states, "Like John, however, they [early witnesses] were used by Jehovah even before the voices of the seven thunders were fully published. They had preached diligently for 40 years before 1914, and they had struggled to stay active during the first world war. They had proved to be the ones who, when the master arrived, were found to be giving the domestics food at the proper time. (Matt 24:45-47)" - Revelation Climax, p.159, par 19

    In fact, the entire 25th chapter of the Revelation book is devoted to this same subject where it is explained that Revelation 11:1-13 corresponds to the time period of 1914-1919 when all so-called Christian religions were examined and found to be deficient. Only the small group of Bible Students measured up and thus were "chosen" to be God's channel here on earth.

    The WT leaders have convinced millions that their being chosen in 1919 was just a beginning of Jesus turning his attention to them exclusively. That certain wrong things were being taught prior to 1919 is irrelevant. Only the Bible Students, it is claimed, were "on the watch" and not involved with politics and the World War, unlike all others - especially Christendom. And of course, the WT leaders have iron-clad proof of their being chosen - their being released from prison in 1919 with all their lengthy prison sentences overturned. Their being chosen was only the beginning of a "refining" done by Jesus himself where little by little wrong teachings were corrected continuing down to this day.

    So, you can't win by bringing up all the wrong things being taught prior to 1919 to refute their claim of being selected as God's only channel..

    What you can do, and what I have had much success with, however, is attacking the concept of even the existence of a modern day Faithful and Discreet Slave class. By pointing out that Jesus words both in Matthew and Luke were not meant to be taken as prophetic, pointing to the development of a "class" of individuals, but were in fact illustrative of each person's choice (making him/her a "faithful" slave or an "evil" slave) then the whole "slave class" concept falls apart. Furthermore, nowhere can it be found that Jesus pointed to a modern-day earthly "mediator" as the only means of salvation (a role that is regularly claimed by the FDS). Instead, the scriptures make it clear that there is "... one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus..." (1Tim 2:5)

    Finally, by driving home the point that there is no FDS feeding program anyway and that the Governing Body is the "channel" and does all the "feeding" while 99.9% of the FDS have no input whatsoever - I have had much success in convincing others of the lunacy of the whole FDS concept and the idea of Jesus selecting the small group of Bible Students in 1919.

  • oompa
    oompa
    Mary:

    If Jesus 'inspected' the Watchtower in 1918, He would have seen that they were practicing things (like celebrating Christmas) that are now a disfellowshipping offense and will earn you a one way ticket to Hell. Where exactly do they get that they were "faithful" and "discreet" and "providing food at the proper time" if they were still practicing holidays which they claim are right from Satan the Debbil??

    My dads reply to this is always that we were more correct than everyone else. No eternal soul, no burning hell, no trinity, and calling god by name........these have not changed ever so we have it right .bla bla bal.....How to get around this?.......oompa

  • oompa
    oompa
    Bud: What you can do, and what I have had much success with, however, is attacking the concept of even the existence of a modern day Faithful and Discreet Slave class.

    Reminds me of when I asked the CO what the first century anointed ones referred to themselves as. Since we so pattern ourselves after them it makes sense we would follow their lead. Loved the silence and confused look on his face and the other elder. Never, not ONCE was it faithful slave or servant.....just the chosen, and chosen ones and those chosen.........idiots........oompa

  • oompa
    oompa
    Dawg: I told my cousin that if I'd of known of those things then I'd of never, and I freaking mean never been baptised-at age 18 no less. Lying bunch of bastards that the GB is.

    AMEN to that Dawg! Same with being taught the name jehover really is gods name and that jesus and his buddies used it as taught in the NWT....why the hey is that not included in the questions before baptism??????????? Really pisses me off....keep us in the dark

    And just may have realized...Dawg, Georgia? Bulldawg? What a game last week, esp that 30 yard kick off penalty!!!.....oompa

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot
    Furthermore, nowhere can it be found that Jesus pointed to a modern-day earthly "mediator" as the only means of salvation (a role that is regularly claimed by the FDS). Instead, the scriptures make it clear that there is "... one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus..." (1Tim 2:5)

    Yes....it sounds feasible to US because we are wise to the clever machinations and inevitable word-twisting of the men who write for the WTS---but I have found that no matter what scripture one may bring up to refute the WTS beliefs---they have an explanation for it that they will stand on as "proof".

    As a poster here brought out yesterday, to put ANY sense into the JW mind, one must attack their policies rather than scripture.

    Finally, by driving home the point that there is no FDS feeding program anyway and that the Governing Body is the "channel" and does all the "feeding" while 99.9% of the FDS have no input whatsoever - I have had much success in convincing others of the lunacy of the whole FDS concept and the idea of Jesus selecting the small group of Bible Students in 1919.

    This is a good place to start as many JWs don't ever bother to thnk this far down the line and stop to realize that their "food" is NOT coming from nor being distributed BY the majority of the "remnant" that Jesus has chosen as his representitives on earth. It blew me away when I was told this because it simply never occurred to me all those years.

  • Mary
    Mary
    oompa said: My dads reply to this is always that we were more correct than everyone else. No eternal soul, no burning hell, no trinity, and calling god by name........these have not changed ever so we have it right .bla bla bal.....How to get around this?......"

    Actually, none of those things are requisites for having God's blessing or being handpicked by Jesus as being the identifying mark of "true Christians" and his assertion that "these have not changed every sowe have it right" is ridiculous. Other churches have taught for over 1800 years that we have an eternal soul, there is a burning hell and God is a trinity. These have not changed since the churchs' inception.....does that mean they "have it right"?

    Not only that, but the Millerites, and the Seventh Day Adventists do not believe in an immortal soul, a burning hell or a trinity and the taught this long before Charles Russell did, and they teach it to this very day. Does that mean that they have "the truth"?

    As for them "calling God by name", well, that actually means squat. First of all, the pronounciation is way off. "Jehovah" is viewed as a joke by Orthodox Jews as being so far removed from the original Tetragrammaton, that it's not even worth getting upset over. Even "Yahweh" is viewed with alot of scepticism by scholars. Witnesses invaribly answer that the exact pronounciation isn't what matters----it's the fact that they use "Jehovah" is what counts*. This sort of logic defies normal reasoning. If it's so important to God that we use His name, then surely it would matter greatly that we pronounced it properly. It would be like someone calling me "Matilda" instead of "Mary" and insist that this is an identifying mark of them being a true friend of mine----it just makes no damn sense.

    Not only that, but the Witnesses' insistence on using the name "Jehovah" in their ever day life, goes directly against the 7th Commandment which specifically says:

    You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

    That sounds A LOT like God did not want His people to use his name as though it were no different than John, Mary or Peter, yet this is exactly what the Witnesses do.

    * the Witnesses claim that the exact pronounciation isn't that important---"it' the thought that counts", yet they do not apply this same logic to their ban on celebrating Christmas. When it comes to Christmas, they whine that the exact date is VERY important and they certainly to not assert that "it's the thought that counts." Typical double-speak.

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Dear Don,

    Thank you for posting this from the Watchtower. I totally agree with you. I think the reason the society is making comments like this in their magazines, is to ease the minds of those who are starting to question, and or who have talked with others who have actually examined what the society was teaching during the supposed time of Jesus inspection.

    If they make comments like the one in the Watchtower you quoted, then any who may be starting to "think, and wonder" will hopefully be pacified by this sort of statement. It is kind of like saying, "no need to run for your brains....no need to doubt, wonder or think for yourself, let us do that for you...The faithful and discreet slave WAS providing food at the proper time. Remember questioning us is like questioning God! So relax, no need to worry...keep your brains at the door please."..

    They forget about doubting Thomas...he wasn't shunned or excommunicated by Jesus for having doubts. Rather Jesus proved his words to him..unlike the organization who says these words are true because of who they say they are.. you cannot examine their credentials to prove they are who they say.

    Thanks to ones like yourself who wrote "Captives of a Concept", and Franz who wrote Crisis of Conscience you are helping ones make that examination that the society doesn't anyone to make. So.. THANK YOU!!!!!

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    If you take away the accurate truth, which even the most ardent dub must agree that they did not have - the only thing going for Taze Russell's Bible Students was their (possible) sincerity . And how does the Borg dismiss sincerity as a quality?

    w03 2/1 p. 32 Sincerity—Desirable, but Is It Enough?

    Yet, note that sincerity alone is not enough. It must be complemented with truth. The builders and the passengers of the Titanic might sincerely have believed that the ocean liner was unsinkable. On its maiden voyage in 1912, however, it struck an iceberg and 1,517 people lost their lives. Certain first-century Jews might sincerely have believed in their way of worshiping God, but their zeal was "not according to accurate knowledge." (Romans 10:2) For us to be acceptable to God, our sincere beliefs must be based on accurate information.
  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    How many times did we tell this to others in the ministry?? You could ask this of others, but the society doesn't want you to ask this of yourself!!

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

    Here is what the AWAKE 1970 4/8 pg. 27 article says:

    "Your

    WordIsTruth"

    Is

    YourstheRightReligion?

    JESUS CHRIST showed that not all persons practice the right religion, the one that leads to life. In fact, he explained that the majority of mankind would be misled into taking the broad road that leads to destruction. So he warned: "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves." (Matt. 7:13-15) The apostle Paul, too, revealed that false religious leaders would mislead many.—2 Cor. 11:14, 15.

    Are you sure that your religion truly has God’s approval? It is possible to make sure. Yes, you can determine for certain whether your religion is the right one. This can be done by examining whether its teachings and practices are in accord with God’s Word, which Jesus said is the truth. (John 17:17) It is a relatively easy examination to make. And if you should find in making it that your religion’s teachings and practices are not in keeping with the Bible, then it is not the right religion.

    Are you willing to put your religion through such a test? There is nothing to fear, because if you have the right religion you can only be reassured by the examination. And if what you believe is not in keeping with the Bible, then you should welcome the truth, because it leads to eternal life.—John 17:3.

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